Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Vegan Diet Remission

In the report it says the patient had SI pain for 10 years that didn't respond to physical therapy, antibiotics, sulfasalazine, NSAIDs or pain killers but improved significantly after only 3-4 days of the diet. After consuming meat 6 weeks later the symptoms returned and then went away again on resumption of the diet so I can see why the authors thought it would be an interesting case report. It was also published in a journal of complementary and natural medicine which is probably more likely to publish a positive vegan report so that could be a factor.

I am not sure why there aren't any published case reports for NSD. Ebringer apparently has over 600 case reports for LSD from his Middlesex London AS Clinic. If you added in the success stories from this site, that would be plenty of evidence to justify further investigation.

it wasn't a study or intended to be. It was a case report

i'm agreeing with most here, thinking more that this diet is eliminating a food allergen of this individual.

curious as to why you don't think vegan diets are healthy long term. while not a vegetarian myself, everything i read suggests that those who eat a plant based diet live longer healthier lives. for instance, just finished reading "the blue zones", one of many studies suggesting the value of a plant based diet.

What I have read agrees with JROC; some of the benefits of a non-vegan diet

* the DHA/EPA omega 3 fatty acids in fish/shellfish/grassfed-dairy are much more effective then ALA omega 3 in plants, which must be converted by the body into DHA at a low efficiency

* studies have shown that eating meat from healthfully raised animals (yes, I know that rules out a majority of the meat sold in U.S.) can actually decrease heart attack/stroke risk. Need to take a look at studies done in other countries with higher standards than U.S. stockyards; one can pretty much dismiss most U.S. studies on meat consumption as "eating animals that were pumped full of chemicals and antibiotics to keep them alive long enough to slaughter... will not make you healthy (duh)"

* most plant-based iron comes along with oxalates which hinder it's absorption, while meat has iron in a readily absorbed form (not a benefit to those with excess iron of course, but seems to be more common to have low iron)

* meat proteins have the full set of amino acids and are more digestible than vegetable alternatives which often have protein in the form of difficult-to-digest lectins (bean proteins, gluten, wga, are all lectins difficult to handle by many with less-than-perfect digestion). There is also a possible link between eating too much lectins and leptin resistance, which leads to metabolic disorder. Also the frequent vegan staple of soy protein comes along with those phytoestrogens which are having adverse effects on a lot of people (post-menopausal women might be an exception though).

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/lectins/
http://wellnessmama.com/2029/spill-the-beans-are-they-healthy-or-not/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectin#Lectin_and_Leptin_Resistance

Sue, one more thing to keep in mind when you read about "Blue Zones" is that there is no ideal type of diet for all gene types. I'm convinced this is the root of many arguments about whether low-carb or high-carb is better for weight loss. There are horribly deficient diets which will make anyone into a sickly invalid... but the ideal diet varies according to person. There are scandinavian families which are super healthy and tall with high-quality dairy, but if you drop in someone without a dairy heritage they could easily be lactose intolerant and fail to thrive. Those of us with HLA-B27 and leaky gut issues are prone to not thrive on certain diets that provide wonderful nutrition for individuals who have the intestinal equivalent of an "iron stomach".

SJLC,

thanks for both of those posts.

its always interesting to read all sides of a discussion. knowledge is power, right!

Interesting case report , thanks for posting.
I was a vegan for a year back when I was a teenager, I also gave up refined sugar that year. I never felt better, however this was many years before my RA diagnosis, so I just did it to get healthy. I may try it again and see if it makes me feel any better than the NSD. The case report states the patient felt better in 3-4 days I wonder if any of us would feel better in 3-4 days, seems worth it to try it out.

Unlike AS, there is quite a bit of evidence linking vegan/vegetarian diets with improvement in RA symptoms.
- http://www.ajcn.org/content/70/3/594S.short
- http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/014067369191770U
- http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/107555302753507195
- http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/030097401750065256
- http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/1/64.short
- http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/40/10/1175.short

A vegan diet works for RA.
A no starch diet works for AS.

Since I have AS and RA, my diet has to be no starch and very very low in animal products. If I eat starch I get backpain/stiffness and can't sleep. If I eat meat/fish/eggs my joints in my fingers and toes start hurting.

The pathway in AS: leaky gut -> stuff (here Klebsiella) invades your body -> your immune system produces anti-bodys -> anti-bodys destroy part of your own cells (your back).
The pathway in RA: leaky gut -> stuff (here animal protein) invades your body -> your immune system produces anti-bodys -> anti-bodys destroy part of your own cells (your finger joints).

I had orrible pain and swelling (mostly joings in fingers / toes / knees, but also somewhat upper back) when I ate high animal NSD like suggested in this forum.
I had terrible pain and instability in my lower back with slipping disks when I tried to eat only sweet patatoes and white rice.
Neiter the London AS diet nor the starch solution helped me. Bothe gave me severe pain. However the parts of the body in pain were somewhat different in both diets. Only avoiding starch and animal foods gave me relive from my symptoms. Now I eat fruit and non-starchy vegetables. I don't eat starch and limit my intake of animal products.