Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; HOWTO LSD in a stickey post

Hmmm, give that OzLion a piece of chocolate!

Cysteine, Peyer's Patches and Intestinal Permeability

---

An investigation into the role of mucous gel on intestinal permeability and the effect of N-acetyl cysteine (NAC), a mucolytic agent, on intestinal permeability was examined.

CONCLUSIONS: These results suggest that an increase in the mucous gel layer that coats the epithelial lining according to the maturation of the gastrointestinal tract is one of the most important factors for a restriction in intestinal permeability.

Iiboshi Y, Nezu R, Khan J, Chen K, Cui L, Yoshida H, Wasa M, Fukuzawa M, Kamata S, Takagi Y, Okada A. Developmental changes in distribution of the mucous gel layer and intestinal permeability in rat small intestine. JPEN J Parenter Enteral Nutr 1996 Nov-Dec;20(6):406-11.

BACKGROUND: The effects of N-acetylcysteine (NAC) as a mucolytic agent on the uptake of fluorescent polystyrene microparticles by Peyer's patches, on intestinal permeability, and on subsequent transport to mesenteric lymph nodes (MLNs) were investigated to establish the role of mucus gel layer in this process.

CONCLUSIONS: These data suggest that the mucus gel layer located in front of Peyer's patches is one of the important factors for the uptake of noxious macromolecules, and this in turn plays a major role on small intestinal permeability and subsequent translocation to MLNs.

Khan J, Iiboshi Y, Cui L, Wasa M, Okada A. Role of intestinal mucus on the uptake of latex beads by Peyer's patches and on their transport to mesenteric lymph nodes in rats. JPEN J Parenter Enteral Nutr 1999 Jan-Feb;23(1):19-23

The originator of this thread, Arjan the Acolyte, stated in a previous thread that he takes two grams of MSM daily. OzLion says he takes MSM.

I took MSM for pain and found it helped. I have been wary of it after I contracted pericarditis because of wanting to reduce homocysteine blood levels for cardiovascular health. Actually, I had stopped before that, not sure why, perhaps because the MSM couldn't stop the pain and I became disenchanted with it. Looks like it might help us make our guts slimy, er, produce a mucous gel layer.

Best regards,

jcwinnie


Terrain generated by POVRAY

jcwinnie,

here is the info on sulfa vs ssz vs 5-asa.

Arthritis Rheum 1996 Aug;39(8):
Which is the active moiety of sulfasalazine in ankylosing spondylitis? A randomized, controlled study.

Taggart A, Gardiner P, McEvoy F, Hopkins R, Bird H.

Department of Rheumatology, Musgrave Park Hospital, Belfast, Northern Ireland, UK.

OBJECTIVE. To compare the efficacy of sulfasalazine (SSZ) with its two moieties, 5-aminosalicylic acid (ASA) and sulfapyridine (SP), in patients with active ankylosing spondylitis (AS). METHODS. A 26-week randomized, observer-blinded, 2-center, controlled study of treatment with either SSZ, ASA, or SP was conducted in 90 patients with active AS. Patients were evaluated at baseline and at monthly intervals, using several clinical and laboratory measures of disease activity. A global assessment of treatment efficacy was made by both patients and observers at the end of the study period. RESULTS. There were no significant changes in any of the parameters of disease activity in the ASA treatment group. Levels of serum IgG, IgA, and IgM fell significantly during treatment with SP, but none of the other changes reached statistical significance. Plasma viscosity and IgG and IgA levels fell significantly during treatment with SSZ, as did nocturnal spinal pain and overall spinal pain. Patients and observers reported a favorable outcome after treatment with SSZ or SP significantly more often than with ASA treatment. CONCLUSION. SP appears to be the active moiety in AS, although there was a trend suggesting a better outcome in the SSZ group compared with the SP group, perhaps suggesting the importance of a common sulfonamide structure for efficacy.

Hi Oz,

I used to eat a lot of garlic was I worked contrsuction and unloaded trucks for a living. It really seemed to make me feel more "able". At the time, i did not know what my occasional low back pains were caused by. My only problem was that the smell of garlic would come out in my sweat and my hands always had it's essence. Does this happen with you? If so, is there a way to prevent?

I am currently taking a suppliment that has MSM in it an it seems to be helping but as you prob klnow i have been much more diligent in the other aspects of AS kickin as well so all things must be considered.

Regards,
ike

Ken,

Got it! Into AskSam it goes. Thanks.

Best regards,

jcwinnie

Gerard,

You see, if you don't necessarily subscribe to the "Find A Bug" school, then the question becomes more interesting. What is all this IgM, IgG, and IgA stuff?

---

Mucosal Immunity

"The epithelial glycoprotein called secretory component (SC) is quantitatively the most important receptor of the immune system because it is responsible for external transport of locally produced polymeric IgA (pIgA) to generate remarkably large amounts of secretory IgA. Antibodies of this type constitute the major mediators of specific humoral immunity. Transmembrane SC belongs to the Ig supergene family and functions as a common pIg receptor, also translocating pentameric IgM externally to form secretory IgM. The B cells responsible for mucosal pIg production are initially stimulated in organized mucosa-associated lymphoepithelial structures, particularly the Peyer's patches in the distal small intestine; from these inductive site they migrate as memory cells to exocrine tissues all over the body. Mucous membranes are thus furnished with secretory antibodies in an integrated way, ensuring a variety of specificities at every secretory effector site. There is currently great interest in exploiting this integrated or "common" mucosal immune system for oral vaccination against pathogenic infectious agents and also to induce tolerance in T cell-mediated autoimmune diseases. However, much remains to be learned about mechanisms for antigen uptake and processing necessary to elicit
stimulatory or suppressive mucosal immune responses. Moreover, evidence is emerging for the existence of considerable regionalization with regard to functional links between inductive sites and effecter sites of mucosal immunity."

PMID: 9382729

Brandtzaeg P, Berstad AE, Farstad IN, Haraldsen G, Helgeland L, Jahnsen FL, Johansen FE, Natvig IB, Nilsen EM, Rugtveit J. Mucosal immunity--a major adaptive defence mechanism. Behring Inst Mitt 1997 Feb;(98):1-23

"The traditional role of IgA antibodies in mucosal defense has been considered as providing an immune barrier to keep exogenous substances, including microbial pathogens, from penetrating the mucosa. In this way infections can be prevented. More recently, studies in vitro and in vivo are providing evidence to suggest that IgA may have additional roles in mucosal defense. For example, during their passage through the lining epithelial cells of mucous membranes en route to the
secretions, IgA antibodies may have an opportunity to neutralize intracellular pathogens like viruses. Also, IgA antibodies in the mucosal lamina propria have opportunities to complex with antigens and excrete them through the adjacent mucosal epithelium, again by the same route to the secretions that is taken by free IgA. These latter functions could aid in recovery from infection."

PMID: 7612253

Lamm ME, Nedrud JG, Kaetzel CS, Mazanec MB. IgA and mucosal defense. APMIS 1995 Apr;103(4):241-6

---

Best regards,

jcwinnie

I'm afraid the garlic scent comes with the teritory. I am currently taking an enteric-coated garlic tablet (I think 1 gram weight) that seems to do a good job without the scent. I have this with my breakfast and then at night if I'm not having a meal that kind of is associated with adding fresh garlic I have it then also.



Don't think you can - KNOW YOU CAN

Gerard,

there is one very important fact that everyone seems to be missing, and that is that jc has been falsely attributing to published research results that they do not contain. Every time a post of his is read it has to be remembered he is a proven liar.

I'm sorry if this argument upsets some people but such mendacity as jc's undermines the whole way in which these forums work. We have to rely on others' honesty and truthfulness in reporting their own experiences and what they have read. You cannot with username jcwinnie.


'Pain is a state of conciousness. Understanding is not'

Bilko,
I do not think Jonathan is a proven liar. He is just an overactive reader of articles that sometimes is set on the wrong path and therefore falsely interpretets the things he reads. The IgA etc thing is an example of that. There is no way that the body can discriminate between E coli and Klebsiella cause they are so closely related (both gram negative enteric bacteria that live in the same habitat). So in my view there can't be anything like " IgM (E. Coli) and IgG (Proteus) " and Ig A for Klebsiella. Therefore Jonathan seems to interpret articles with IgA, IgM and IgG reaction to Klebsiella as against the Klebsiella theory, which they are not. I think from that point the confusion starts. That together with the unfortunate thread on the chest pains causes this unhappy episode.
On the other hand Jonathan sometimes gives very good links and pieces of articles. The link about the effects of diet on transplantation for instance give new insights to my thoughts on how and why the diets are so successfull.
Best Regards,
Gerard

" Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have."
-Stephen Wright-

Gerard,

jc made a particular assertion saying that Ebringer et al found elevated IgM (E. coli) and elevated IgG (P. mirabilis) in AS patients. When I pointed out this was not true he said it was in a specific paper. I had that paper in front of me, and there was nothing in it whatever about E. coli or P. mirabilis. He was making it up.



'Pain is a state of conciousness. Understanding is not'

Bilko,
That was the Ebringer article I was referring to too. I think Jonathan only reads the abstracts on pubmed while you have the complete article. The abstract is a bit multi interpretable especially the conclusion: "CONCLUSION: The role of K. pneumoniae and anti-collagen antibodies in the aetiopathogenesis of CD and AS requires further study". "Requiring further study" could mean anything of course. In the abstract is described that Klebsiella causes enheightened IgA, IgM and IgG. Somehow Jonathan thinks that IgM relates to Coli and IgG to Proteus and so this is a inconclusive result in his view. In my and your view it isn't: it is just Klebsiella causing enheightened IgA, IgM and IgG. Though it is always very dangerous to try to think how someone else is thinking I believe this is the case. But best is of course to wait what the man himself has to say about it.
Best regards,
Gerard

" Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have."
-Stephen Wright-