Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; probiotic: more discussion

Tim,

Okay, I am hereby eating my words. When I started searching on "intestinal permeability" rather than "Leaky Gut Syndrome" I saw where this phenomenon could be quite important. I saw where L-glutamine and zinc supplementation was used to decrease intestinal permeability.

I would be interested in what else helps?

Best regards,


"Contrite" Artist: Dalton Leonard

jcwin,

in my opinion, intestinal permeability is of great importance. it should not be confused with traditional sepsis as you mentioned in your earlier post (maybe thought of as a mild form of sepsis, but not the full blown thing). i should also mention that it is not just some "fad" view dreamt up by naturopaths, but is something that has been verified in allopathic research and can be measured. also, the terms leaky gut and intestinal permeability are synonymous.

as far as what else "helps" this condition, there are many articles on the web that discuss this. one that comes to mind is an article by leo galland. do a search. another site is to go the homepage for great smokies lab and read thru the application notes on the intestinal permeability test.

from what i gather, there are several strategies to nutritionally support healing of the guts. L-glutamine, NAG and quercetin come to mind. however, i have read the nutrional strategies are meant just as support. i think the galland article mentions the main things are avoidance of entero toxic drugs (nsaids), alcohol, non-allergenic diets and elimination of damaging organisms (yeasts) etc. i dont think there is any way to have good intestinal health if you are popping nsaids left and right. i have not taken nsaids for about 7 months and i believe (hope?) this is going to help me in the long run. it was tough at first but at my current condition, i dont need them.

-ken

Ken,

Thanks for the additional info; I will follow-up.

In reply to:

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I don't think there is any way to have good intestinal health if you are popping NSAIDs left and right. I have not taken NSAIDs for about seven months and I believe (hope?) this is going to help me in the long run. It was tough, at first; but, at my current condition, I don't need them.

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Yes, I now pop Voltaren and Tylenol even while I know the NSAIDs could be harmful. Before that, I was popping Naproxen for six years. I would like to be in a condition to avoid NSAIDs. I try for several days, then the pain drives me back to taking them.

I wish you luck continuing to avoid NSAIDs.

Best regards,

jcwinnie

jc,

i know its hard, but limiting nsaids can be an important first step. i suffered greatly when i quit them. i took nsaids indiscriminantly for 7 years, which probably contributed to my current state. i used tylenol otc for days when i had to have something. although tylenol is hard for the liver (what drug isnt), i could get by with it during my transition and cut down on the nsaids. i found it was a good trade off for me.

keep fighting. lets do it together.

-ken

Hi JCWinnie,

Ken brought up some good points on gut permeability.... in a book that I have, it also mentions the best is the avoidance of NSAIDS (I have been off since Easter other than 1 week), habitual alcohol (gave up in 1999), toxins entering the body, viruses and yeast infections (candida) and lectins (undigested protein fragments).

They offered as the most beneficial therapy fasting. This allows the damaged gut to heal when offending foods are removed, allergen foods and dietary lectins. This also allows the gut time to heal.

Dietary tips offered:
-Avoid alcohol, foods containing antibiotic residues and artificial substances, foods known to be allergen to you, sources of dietary lectins, sugars and refined foods. Stress organic foods.

Eat bitter herbs or digestive enyzme supplements to aid in digestion so less lectins and allergen foods reach the intestine.

Herbs and foods listed that helpful to repair gut:
Slippery elm bark, cabbage juice, okra, fenugreek

Nutrients to repair gut:
Quercetin, glutamine, glutathione, N-Acetyl-D-Glucosamine (NAG), Essential Fatty Acids (Omega 3's and GLA) and probiotics.

Just passing on what I am reading. Too early for me to tell if works since just commenced working on healing my gut.

Tim

If we go through a bad patch and need an occasional NSAID, is it correct that Vioxx is the drug of choice to do the least intestinal damage? I was led to believe that it was kinder to the gut than the earlier brufen derivative drugs.
Charlie

Tim,

In reply to:

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Eat bitter herbs or digestive enyzme supplements to aid in digestion so less lectins and allergen foods reach the intestine.

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I am assuming proteolytic enzymes; nonetheless, I thought I should check -- which digestive enzymes?

Best regards,


Holy Bat Droppings! Will KickAS survive the adolescent flamers???

regarding digestive enzymes, i have not tried them. there is good info on the web for broad based enzymes that cover all the ones you could ever need. some are plant based (bromelain/papain) and others come from hog pancreases. one concern i had when researching this is that many formulations have beta hcl acid. the acid may be contraindicated for those who have gut damage/potential ulcers from taking nsaids.

i try to naturally improve digestion by chewing well and not drinking water before, during and after eating.

-ken

Charles,

Actually, the COX-2 inhibitors -- Celebrex and Vioxx -- have been getting "bad press" on Kick AS recently -- (click on link to view start of thread) Supposedly, they are nicer to the intestines.

Best regards,

jcwinnie

jcwinnie is correct on the cox-2 drugs. my takeaway on the whole discussion was that vioxx is more cox-2 specific than celebrex, thus a better GI safety profile. after reviewing the data on celebrex, it seems in the short term its safter than the older drugs, but overtime is about the same. this seems logical. my personal feeling is over a long period of time, your odds of running into problems increases and probably hits some type of asymptote, for any class of drugs, not just nsaids.

-ken