Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; The importance of dropping sugar

Everyone have their ideas about food, but apart from dropping starch, many on these forums seem to benefit from dropping sugar.

For many months the NSD was sort-of working for me, or I should say it mostly felt like it wasn't working until I repeatedly gave up on it and ate some starch - and then felt worse.
But within days of also dropping all sugar - including beer, fruit, chocolate - the results were great, and I could not doubt it anymore.

I think the problem with beer and dairy is their high sugar content. So for dairy I only eat cheese (only 1% sugar - fermentation removed the rest), and very limited unsweetened full cream yogurt, because even unsweetened yogurt has 5% to 8% sugar.

In short: drop starch AND sugar. Eat lots of non-sweet veggies. Energy from eggs, meat & cheese and avocados. But I believe that non-sweet, non-starchy veggies like kale should make up more than half the volume and weight of what we eat.

Some other NSD forum users who also recommended the ketogenic diet:

MikaelPeachtree: "When i first st...ffective."

keit_nufc1
here and here

FormerFoodie and Stormb

I definitely agree on the beer and chocolate, but non-FODMAP fruits give me no issues at all. (melon, berries, citrus are all fine). As long as it's not fruits with polyols (apples, pears, apricot, cherries, blackberries, watermelon) or fruits with starch, I might get a little bloated, but never any joint pain.

Without some kind of carbohydrate, you have to eat so much fat... I was on a ketogenic diet for 18 months and it felt great in the first few months but the last 8-10 or so I was just so tired all the time.

+1 for Fred's comments.

Discovering FODMAPs explained a lot for me, especially as I continued to flare on the NSD. I always knew that I tolerated berries and (some) melons better (not citrus, for me, though). I really think it varies for each person. Of course, the caveat that too much of anything is bad applies.

My personal experience was similar to Fred's, too: my energy faded over time and I needed the occasional starch day to keep from just sitting around all the time.

The last two ketogenic diets I tried were medically supervised and I was told to stop. In one, my purines spiked and the other I had pruritis on my hands and arms. This seemed to be kidney related and controlling proteins/purines did not help.

I now am LSD rather than NSD and feel better, but I still think the NSD (induction) helped me get to this point, if that makes any sense. As long as I stay away from whole grains and 'good' starches, I'm okay. Took a lot of experimentation.

I agree

If one was to eliminate FODMAPs in addition to NSD you would be left with very little. Basically eggs, meat/fish, oils and very limited one or two types of fruit and veg. Therefore you have to eat too much of the few food sources you are left with which cant be healthy.

I think the approach of doing one or the other depending on what works for you...but whichever 'poison' you choose (starch or FODMAP) you minimise...is the intelligent approach especially as it should be more sustainable financially and practically.

I personally find that milk/cream (lactose) for example give me flares that starches don't. However there are some low FODMAP foods which are mega-flare instigators for me, particularly bananas and orange juice.

I would be grateful for a bit more specific information on your diet if you don't mind as it could be of interest to me to try - eg what safe starches you eat and how much you eat of them.

Hey Staffy,

In trying to add back in starches, I didn't have much success with what other people had tried; for example, short grain rice, potato starch, and other healthy whole grains let me know within a day of eating them that it wasn't going to work. I kept trying different things almost weekly while on NSD and paid for it almost every time (SI pain/uveitis).

By accident, I found I did the best with a small quantity of white bread (a slice or two) 2-3 times a week. It really was the amount, I think. Just for energy in my workouts the next day. My feeling is that the white bread is digested quicker than other starches. It's just a guess, though.

My diet (Monday to Sunday) goes something like:

Fast (24 hr, Sunday dinner to Monday dinner)

Monday dinner: Starch meal

[lean beef w/ white bread, salad (romaine, celery, little cucumber) w/ 2 tsp olive oil, 20g ea almonds & dried cranberry)]

Tuesday WORKOUT DAY (1hr/750 cal); no starch day (things like 2 eggs, 50g fried carrots w/prosciutto, homemade flax & chia seed bread (no starch) for breakfast, a lean meat for lunch with vegetable (say salad/sometimes a little broccoli--have to be careful); dinner (chicken breast, soup with romaine, carrot, celery, homemade fruit juice gelatin). More chia/flax bread throughout the day for snacks/energy.

Wednesday REST DAY (walking); eating similar to workout day, except for dinner I might have a homemade ground beef burger with mustard, (sparing) ketchup and a salad (always romaine)

Thursday is a workout day, Friday a rest + starch day, Saturday workout, Sunday rest but no starch, nothing after 5:30pm), Monday fast until 5:30pm.

Basically, my favourite food is the worst thing for me: pizza. All components of it need to be minimized for me: that means no tomatoes, no onions, cheese is still unknown (sometimes good/sometimes bad), and of course, limited wheat. Eating it is an instant setback.

Also, FODMAPS-wise, no iceberg lettuce, limited fruits, safe veg for me is carrots, celery, cucumber, always with lots of olive oil. Limited brassica veg are okay (broccoli/cabbage a few times a week or less); whey protein w/ berries, coconut water and coconut cream after workouts.

I supplement with magnesium and am experimenting with Align + lactoferrin (other posts about that on here), but only find the lactoferrin to be helpful. I also try to juice every day (again mostly carrots, cucumbers, celery, an apple and a bit of kale) and take an enzyme with the juice.

I tried making my own water kefir, milk kefir, kombucha, sauerkraut, etc. but the only fermented thing I tolerate is dill pickles (my eye flares otherwise.)

Recent blood tests have shown everything (ESR, CSR, etc.) to be in range, except cholesterol (from all the flax, chia, olive oil), which is borderline, but the ratio HDL/LDL is good.

Previously, my eyes were flaring while on the NSD (14 months) and needed to take celebrex 200mg twice a day to get control, but since January following this 'LSD' I have lowered the Celebrex to 200mg daily and haven't had a flare for several months now. I feel the healthiest I've felt for about a decade (last few years were hell in terms of flare/uveitis).

Anyhow, hope that helps. Sorry if I droned on/hijacked anyone's thread.

Really useful thanks. Sounds like you are a lot more NSD (starch) than FODMAP (sugar). If its working, that's great.

Hello there,

I have to say I limit sugar, but I do not drop it. Too much sugar over the 13+ years on this diet have led to issues with candida for me.

Tim