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dlee Offline OP
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This was posted on Facebook today from http://freetheanimal.com which I thought was interesting. I'm interested in the bacteria that can prevent Klebsiella from turning invasive. Will have to look into that further.

"More da book werks:

Rheumatoid Arthritis -
In rheumatoid arthritis, the immune system attacks membranes that line the joints, causing painful swelling, stiffness, and a loss of function in fingers, wrists, or other joints. Often thought to be triggered by factors such as smoking and stress, it’s now known to be related to gut health; i.e., diet related, ultimately.

A specific type of gut bacteria, Prevotella copri, is found in
over 75% of those newly diagnosed. When lab animals were implanted with Prevotella copri, they developed symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis. While this is not enough for scientists to develop a cure, it does give them clues toward developing new treatments, treatments that will almost certainly target gut microbial dysbiosis.

[SIDEBAR]
Ankylosing Spondylitis is an autoimmune disease that attacks the spaces between vertebrae in the spinal column, hip joints, and other locations throughout the body. It’s a disfiguring, painful disease that’s closely associated with the gut microbe Klebsiella pneumoniae. Beneficial microbes Bifidobacteria, Lactobacilli, and other core species prevent Klebsiella from turning invasive.
While Klebsiella pneumoniae is a normal inhabitant of the human gut, it’s often associated with urinary tract infections, upper respiratory tract infections, and wound site infections. When it grows uncontrollably in the respiratory tract it can often lead to deadly pneumonia.
The microbe’s association with ankylosing spondylitis has a clear genetic factor, with 90% of patients expressing the HLA-B27 genotype.(27) One hypothesis put forth is that this genetic signal could trigger the disease by enhancing the growth and perpetuation of the Klebsiella microbes in the bowel. In an attempt to slow the growth of the now pathogenic bacteria, the immune system mistakenly attacks the human tissues, thus causing the disease. Strings of protein in Klebsiella bear resemblance to human joint tissue. This molecular mimicry is the underlying mechanism behind all autoimmune disease and a growing number of modern diseases that heretofore had no clear medical pathophysiology—such as essential hypertension.(28, 29)
A common treatment for ankylosing spondylitis is to restrict all fermentable fiber from the diet in order to starve the gut microbes, achieving results similar to the overuse of antibiotics, or the practice of very low carbohydrate and ketogenic diets.(30, 31) This approach may have short-term therapeutic value but an unforeseen drawback may be further damaged immunity and gut health in the long term, leading to unintended consequences. The immune system lines the entire gut and atrophies without butyrate and contact from the beneficial microbes that regularly consume fermentable fiber.(32)
[SIDEBAR]

27. "HLA-B27 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia." 2004. 17 Aug. 2014 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HLA-B27>
28. Schwimmbeck, PETER L, DT Yu, and MB Oldstone. "Autoantibodies to HLA B27 in the sera of HLA B27 patients with ankylosing spondylitis and Reiter's syndrome. Molecular mimicry with Klebsiella pneumoniae as potential mechanism of autoimmune disease." The Journal of experimental medicine 166.1 (1987): 173-181.
29. Tervaert, JWC. "Hypertension: an autoimmune disease[quest] - Nature." 2011. <http://www.nature.com/hr/journal/v34/n4/full/hr201115a.html>
30. "LOW STARCH DIET." 2012. 3 May. 2014 <http://www.spondylitis.org/about/low_starch_diet_summer2012_spondylitis_plus.pdf>
31. Ebringer, A, and C Wilson. "The use of a low starch diet in the treatment of patients suffering from ankylosing spondylitis." Clinical rheumatology 15.1 (1996): 62-66.
32. Rashid, T. "The Link between Ankylosing Spondylitis, Crohn's Disease ..." 2013. <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3678459/> "


_________________________________________________________
Diagnosed AS year 2000 age 26; First onset of major symptoms came with severe food poisoning leaving me in chronic pain hardly able to walk/sleep/sit - never been the same since; HLA-B27 positive; bouts of iritis; no biologics ever, controlling with NSAID's and diet but trying to get off NSAID's through various "biohacking" experimentations; Live in Auckland, New Zealand
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Interesting... thanks for posting this.

Tim


AS may win some battles, but I will win the war.

KONK - Keep ON Kicking
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dlee Offline OP
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I think I will be looking for these microbes in my next probiotic order.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7018135

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11316370


_________________________________________________________
Diagnosed AS year 2000 age 26; First onset of major symptoms came with severe food poisoning leaving me in chronic pain hardly able to walk/sleep/sit - never been the same since; HLA-B27 positive; bouts of iritis; no biologics ever, controlling with NSAID's and diet but trying to get off NSAID's through various "biohacking" experimentations; Live in Auckland, New Zealand
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Aren´t both of those bacteria both found in all natural yogurt (not processed)? Or are they different sub species?

Tim


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dlee Offline OP
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I don't know yet. I'm not sure if "B. bifidum 1/85 phi" and "L. casei subsp. rhamnosus Lcr35" are specific types or if they are just "b.bifidum" and "l.casei" (which are used in some Yoghurts)


_________________________________________________________
Diagnosed AS year 2000 age 26; First onset of major symptoms came with severe food poisoning leaving me in chronic pain hardly able to walk/sleep/sit - never been the same since; HLA-B27 positive; bouts of iritis; no biologics ever, controlling with NSAID's and diet but trying to get off NSAID's through various "biohacking" experimentations; Live in Auckland, New Zealand
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dlee Offline OP
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"Primal Defense" probiotic has both B.Bifidum and L.Casei which I know some folks on this forum have tried. I haven't tried it but will be on my shopping list.

I recently started off with "AOR Probiotic 3" which is the only one I can find that has "Clostridium butyricum" which is a starch eater (be careful if you are sensitive, it comes packaged in potato starch as its prebiotic)that can apparently promote TREG cells into production. I only started on it a couple of weeks ago and really need to give it a good 3-6 months.

The following 3 are recommended in a stack on some of the sites promoting gut health.

"AOR Probiotic 3", "Primal Defense", and "Prescript Assist". I know some folks here have tried it but I'm not sure for how long or if it provided any noticeable benefits.

Comparing the bacteria in each of the above, they don't seem to crossover too much and there is quite a range of different species when you stack them including soil based organisms.

Think I will just cough up and buy the stack.


_________________________________________________________
Diagnosed AS year 2000 age 26; First onset of major symptoms came with severe food poisoning leaving me in chronic pain hardly able to walk/sleep/sit - never been the same since; HLA-B27 positive; bouts of iritis; no biologics ever, controlling with NSAID's and diet but trying to get off NSAID's through various "biohacking" experimentations; Live in Auckland, New Zealand
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dlee Offline OP
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I'm thinking it might be worth trying DragonSlayers approach of wiping everything out with antibiotics, then using the above stack of probiotics to reintroduce beneficial bacteria.

Last edited by dlee; 08/18/14 11:26 PM.

_________________________________________________________
Diagnosed AS year 2000 age 26; First onset of major symptoms came with severe food poisoning leaving me in chronic pain hardly able to walk/sleep/sit - never been the same since; HLA-B27 positive; bouts of iritis; no biologics ever, controlling with NSAID's and diet but trying to get off NSAID's through various "biohacking" experimentations; Live in Auckland, New Zealand
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dlee Offline OP
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"Lactobacillus rhamnosus" is different to "Lactobacillus Casei" and is also in the "Primal Defense" probiotic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus_rhamnosus

Last edited by dlee; 08/18/14 11:34 PM.

_________________________________________________________
Diagnosed AS year 2000 age 26; First onset of major symptoms came with severe food poisoning leaving me in chronic pain hardly able to walk/sleep/sit - never been the same since; HLA-B27 positive; bouts of iritis; no biologics ever, controlling with NSAID's and diet but trying to get off NSAID's through various "biohacking" experimentations; Live in Auckland, New Zealand
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Hi,
I am excited about these 2 findings and will try this approach. I had no success with the No Starch diet, as it markedly worsened my already severe depression (common side effect, so I had to conclude this was not for me. But using these 2 strains of probiotics may just be the thing.
I have a question for the Australian members: Where do you source these strains of the probiotics? If I can only find an overseas source, does the irradiation that customs do kill the bacteria, even if they are in the freeze dried form?
Thanks everyone for your support on this site.
Cheers
Constance

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Hi,
these are specific strains. L. Casei has over 30 different strains. In other related research which I read last night after reading this post, some other strains do not appear to have the same effect on the Klebs.
If you google L. casei subsp. rhamnosus Lcr35 you will find a small number of companies that supply this strain.

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