Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion Highlights in Spondylitis Research CURING AUTOIMMUNE DISEASE

I suppose that's a good sign? Hopefully, the time line he states applies to AS as well. With solid diet and exercise, about a few weeks to roughly four months.

I'm picking up my goods on Monday. Did you get the probiotics-3? His studies have lead him to believe that dairy probiotics are "transient" and only provide temporary relief.
http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Orthomole...ds=probiotics+3

Of course they've gone up by 8$ per bottle in the last week

You may have read this already but he has some good Q&A's here;

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=196334975274806517&postID=5850507581019441309

Yeah, I ordered them right before they went outta stock on Amazon. I've also got the other 2 Richard Nikoley advocates, and 1 other called Align (got that one at Walgreens) that Dr. Ayers referenced in a comment [1]. I've been taking Probiotic 3 with every RS serving and rotating the other 3.

I've also been taking about 3 tablespoons of sauerkraut with every serving.

I also ordered Folate from Pure Encapsulations based on this comment [2]. I actually commented on this right after his post. I found the idea that folic acid potentially increased cancer risk to lend enough credence to the theory that it increases T regulatory cells, that I figured I'd add it in the protocol.

I'm the furtherest thing in the world from a scientist, but the puzzles pieces seemed to fit in my mind, so I bit.

This may also be of interest to you http://mrheisenbug.wordpress.com. This most interesting thing here is if you look at the American Gut diagrams (of Tim and Jeff, Tim uses and advocates RS, Jeff is the founder of American Gut and advocates a high plant volume diet) in the post "Why Resistant Starch Is Probably Not Enough" you'll notice the proteobacteria band is very small compared to others.

If my Googling served me correctly, klebsiella pneumoniae is a Gammaproteobacteria [3], which would fall under the Proteobacteria [4] band in the American Gut reports. So it seems that these 2 examples are of people who have taken resistant starch and lowered the group of bacteria that includes KP, by increasing the other beneficial bacteria groups.

Anybody with more a scientific education able to chime in here? Has anybody here had an American Gut sample processed that they'd be willing to share?

1. http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/...152381089371176

2. http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/...468661251498730

3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gammaproteobacteria

4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteobacteria

I really hope that heisenbug's suggestion that certain clostridia groups of bacteria are shown to have good starch degrading capability in vitro is true. Do you think following a mark'sdailyapple-esque diet will be high enough in vegetables to be considered a high veggie diet?
Really interesting stuff. Are you considering doing a test through theamericangut.org ? There's another one called http://ubiome.com/

In my case, I'm certain that I have a severely permeated gut.(tons of food intolerances)
This article has me wanting to do a check;
http://mdheal.org/leakygut.htm

http://www.truehealthlabs.com/leaky-gut-test-lactulose-mannitol/

In hopes of healing my gut, I drink bone broth, 10-35grams of L-glutamine, collagen, gelatine1-2tbs/day and attempt to avoid stress as mush as possible. I'm taking away from mdheal.org that GSH and N-acetyl cystine might be worthy additions. Thoughts?

I think a MDA diet should be veggie sufficient. I know Terry Wahls probably recommends more than he does, but I intermittent fast to only one meal a day, so I can't handle her "9 cup" volume right now. She also recommends it for different reasons - repairing mitochondria.

That's one thing I need to stock up on is veggies, I've been doing VLC for a while. Time to feed the little gut guys.

I've considered both, but right now it seems they still have kinks to work out, and that they need to break things down a bit more to be more diagnostically relevant. I think they're both very cool, but right now I'm of the mindset that I'm not gonna throw money at things that won't change my treatment course.

For example, if it came back with severe dysbosis, I'm still gonna try this RS experiment. If it came back looking looking like Michael Pollans, that doesn't prove there isn't something off at a more lower/more specific bacteria level than they test for, and I'm still gonna try this experiment. Would it be cool to track changes? Absolutely, but every $100 I don't spend now is a $100 that could go to FMT in the future.

Regarding leaky gut, I had that Genova test done and got the positive "leaky gut" result. Ultimately this test falls under same category I'd put Ubiome and American Gut in right now. Cool to know, but are you gonna stop trying to heal a potentially leaky gut because the test didn't find evidence of it?

Good leaky gut link, very well cited.

I did bone broth + glutamine + gelatin on a GAPs style diet for a while (I was on NSAIDs at the time, so was it like trying to pour a bucket of water on a burning building, maybe, but who knows). I've seen people repeat this advice over and over, but I've yet to read about that many people really succeeding on it?

That being said I have a product called GI-Revive by Designs for Health (I trust them as a supplement brand) sitting around for a couple weeks (that I had previously avoided because it tested positive for starch) that I'm considering adding in to the mix next week. It was recommended by a microbiologist professor/PHD who put his IBS into remission using an interesting (and decidedly not GAPs/SCD style diet) protocol.

He's a member of the fecal microbiota transplant group on Facebook, and he wrote a pretty comprehensive guide to his plan. If you send me your email I think you'd enjoy a lot of his ideas. Anybody else that's interested, I'm happy to share, just let me know.

Regarding current status, anecdotally I would say I've noticed the increased gas, and an increase in "interesting TMI" (increased urgency, poos that are actually just farts, very minor, stomach pain, etc).

It's worth noting I started helminthic therapy about a month ago, but didn't notice any symptoms from the worms (assuming they made it in alive), so I do believe any immediate changes (like the gas) would be from the RS.

Arrgh! I ordered the whals protocol but it wasn't in my po box today. I'm really excited to get into that but am about two weeks into "The Paleo approach" diet and lifestyle. There are some things in her regimen that I can't follow strictly at the moment. The Circadian rhythm aspect being one of them. Can't say I feel that much better but I'll stick with it for at least 4 months just to make sure. Not sure if you've read it but it's a super thorough and comprehensive approach for every type of auto immune condition. The major issue obv is that it pays no mind to LSD or NSD and to a certain extent, sort of discredits its validity. I've read too many nsd success stories to dismiss it myself. NSD didn't help as much as I was hoping it would. Even with the complete elimination of dairy. Maybe I didn't give it a long enough go. I did it for only about 1 and a half months.

This lady had good but limited success on the GAPS diet but is really happy with her progress on the paleo approach. Her symptoms were very similar to mine reagrding pain levels and sleep times before waking from pain etc.

http://www.phoenixhelix.com/paleo-autoimmune-protocol/

I discussed that same topic with my friend in about the gut test. Regardless of where my it's at, I'm striving really hard to fix and optimize my gut lining and microbiome anyways. He made one good point. If my gut is already currently completely screwed, I might be more inclined to try an antibiotic protocol and then fix my gut up afterwards.(hopefully) If it's in so so shape, I might be better off just trying naturally with food and supps. But there are sooooo many tests that one can do. False negatives and false positives are all over the place which can really throw us off. And as you said, they steal valuable, hard earned money away from the one potential "magic pill" in FMT's. Paul Jaminet and Dr. Ayers are very confident in their efficacy. The only place I've found is in London at roughly about 10k. I assume we would fall into the "more stubborn and refractory cases" fees category. Accommodation inclusive? Diet might be tough to follow out of a hotel room. Maybe for rent by owner with a kitchen?

http://taymount.com/treatment-fees/

Have you found anywhere else? Did helminthic therapy help at all for you?

There's a dr. in Calgary treating c.difficile with heavy amounts of triple coated poo PILLS. I doubt they will A-ok that for AS any time soon.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/poop-pills-can-treat-c-difficile-calgary-doctor-says-1.1895079

I'm saving the FMT for my last line of defense. Have you seen the DIY FMT on youtube?

I just got my pro-3 and potato starch today. Took one tsp PS, 1 pro-3, and 1 prescript assist. I didn't have time to get the primal defense one as I have to drive to The States to grab all of this stuff. Tons o' veggies and fermented foods on top of all of that and I'm hoping for the best.

I PM'd my email to you.

I have the Paleo Approach and have skimmed through it. Have yet to read it cover to cover. I appreciate how thorough she is in sticking to science and citing her sources.

I was on a NSD with a very high volume of vegetables for a couple months, I didn't personally notice a difference from consuming such a massive amount of the micronutrients Ballantyne and Wahls praise. I've balanced my omega 3:6 ratio to a point where a Quest blood test showed it below 1 (it was .9 I think), I've since added quite a bit of pork and lessened my fish intake, so it's certainly not that good at the moment. I try to mind my circadian rhythms as much as possible, but I'm definitely not perfect in that regard.

I've looked a little bit into Taymount, accommodations aren't included, but they do list some suggestions in their PDF plamflet http://taymount.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/BacteriotherapyBrochure.pdf. If you make it over there I'm sure you could find a way to make the diet work, where there's a will there's a way (especially if you willed your way into FMT)!

The only other clinic I know of that treats for non C-diff is http://www.probiotictherapy.com.au. I *believe* they treat non gut AI issues. There's an updated list here http://thepowerofpoop.com/epatients/where-to-get-fecal-transplant/

Nothing to note so far regarding helminthic therapy. But I'm only 4 weeks into treatment (and that's assuming all 35 hookworms even made it to their final destination) and most tell you to basically forget that you even have the worms until 3 months in.

Poo pills are very cool idea, and certainly a preferable to anything going in through the other end! Another thing I'm excited to follow the progress is are the biotech companies looking at microbiome based therapeutics (quite a list here http://thepowerofpoop.com/resources/innovation/). These guys had great (initial at least) success with C-diff http://sereshealth.com/news/newsroom/ser...nt_c_difficile/ and inflammatory diseases are listed in their product pipeline http://sereshealth.com/pipeline/product_pipeline/

I've watched the DIY stuff and it's definitely tempting to explore more, but I haven't had the balls to have a donor conversation with anyone haha.

Very cool that you got your stuff, I'll be interested to hear how you react short term to the PS + probiotic combo.

Got my stuff. I'm on prscript assist(2/day), AOR Pro-3(3/day) and about half tbs of p starch. Primal defense is on the way.
I know what you mean about the gas. I'm calling them "fear farts." Not sure if I'm farting or soiling my tighty whities :0 It's been almost two full days since my first scoops of P starch. I'm surprised that there's no uptick in pain levels. This is by far the most starch of any form I've eaten in almost 3 months. No BM's yet but I took my first of what will be 3 doses of 1/2 tsp magnesium citrate today to hopefully help.

Do you have names for your 35 hookworm pets? Did you ever think when you were growing up that you'd be eating hookworms and talking about asking friends for their feces when you're older? I would use my Wife's poo. She has an iron belly. She could eat a live wolverine and walk away unscathed.

Encouraging articles! Test what's missing and pop that in a pill! I'm not saying it's that easy but it would be similar to over the counter probiotics, wouldn't it? Can't be patented. Open market. Competition. Lower prices. Dream weaving here. It would even be great if countries like Thailand or Mexico opened up FMT clinics for whoever wanted them. If I had an extra 15k lying around, I would seriously consider taymont, though.

How often are you going to increase your p Starch dose? At how many Tbs are you looking to max out at?

Haha yup, definitely gambling on some farts! And, nope, life definitely threw me a curveball with this one.

I'm particularly interested in Seres (no real reason, just been following them since they went public, but from the looks of it their team is pretty impressive). While they won't say exactly what diseases their targeting the term inflammatory diseases is encouraging. They have some proprietary tech I think that puts it beyond probiotics, but the details they have disclosed are way above my science pay grade. They do have over 25 patents though http://sereshealth.com/technology/ecobiotics/.

I jumped right in with 2 tablespoons on day 1 and I'm up to 4+ tablespoons now. I'll probably max at 4-6 per day. I finally got a decent dose of veggies last night, and had a little upset stomach after. If I had to attribute to mixing with PS + probiotics I'd guess there could have been a connection, but that's purely anecdotal.

Oh, and my folate should be coming in today. Will be starting 400-800mcg today based on this study http://www.jimmunol.org/content/early/2012/08/05/jimmunol.1200420.full.pdf

The jimmunol link works but I can't open this one, which I think is the main article?
http://www.jimmunol.org/content/early/2012/08/05/jimmun

Now this guy is certainly no Dr and has questionable motives and products but he notes that when you take folate, one must take b12 and vice versa. I haven't found any other reputable sources discussing that but it's something worth looking into. I've had a bottle of methyl folate(400 mgcaps) and methyl cobalamin(5mg tabs) sitting around for a few months unused. I looked at perfect health diet and his rec. dose amounts which are miniscule in comparison to Dave Asprey's. I decided to not use them until I found more concrete evidence.

http://www.bulletproofexec.com/optimize-your-supplements/

What's the dose amount on that article for folate? Which brand did you buy? I have this one and am hoping it's the correct version.
http://www.allstarhealth.com/f/jarrow-methyl_folate.htm
My b12 is this one
http://www.allstarhealth.com/f/source_naturals-methyl_cobalamin_5mg.htm

I'm going to take my PS dose up to 1 full tbs today. I'll add 1Tbs each week until I hit my sweet spot.

You know you are reading info from the right person when he's willing to admit his dismissiveness and change his opinions.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-definitive-guide-to-resistant-starch/#more-48021

I hope we're on the right track.
Please keep the info coming and I'll try to send through any good stuff that I find as well.

I hear ya regarding supplements. Everybody has different recommendations, so it's almost impossible to feel good about actually taking a supplement, and then on top of it finding the best form of it.

Before embarking on the PS starch, I had stopped all supplements (curcumin with piperine was the last to go as I had seen a couple theories that it could harm my helminths).

Thanks for the link to Dave's supplement guide! I eat quite a bit of meat (lamb in particular), so I'm not deficient in the traditional sense for B12. But the daily intake recommendations for B12 vs folate are quite a bit different

B12: http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/#h2
Folate: http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Folate-HealthProfessional/#h2

I personally got this guy http://www.pureencapsulations.com/folate-400.html mostly based off of Chris Kresser's recommendation http://chriskresser.com/folate-vs-folic-acid. If you were interested in taking the 2 in conjunction, they do have this http://www.pureencapsulations.com/b12-folate.html. I'm also following his general dosing advice. I figure I'll take either 1 or 2 400 mcg capsules a day.

Because it was a mouse study, I certainly wouldn't put a lot of weight in it, and don't know if there's any dosing information that you could take from it.

There was another mouse study that had similar results http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0032094#pone-0032094-g005

I don't have any expectations for the B9, but it seemed like a relatively harmless supplement to throw into the mix.

Also Chris Kresser just did a podcast with the guy who started Taymount clinic, not a lot of new info, and not that much specific to AI disease, but worth a listen. I'd like to think he hints that he's toying with the idea of making pills.