Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Low-carb nature of NSD

Hello,

First time poster.

Does sticking to the no-starch/low-starch diet mean, for all practical purposes, being in ketosis? Or can one really eat enough fruit-based sugars to make up the difference? Has anyone's doctor commented on whether ketosis is generally safe?

Also, has anyone retested their C-Reactive Protein, ESR levels after achieving relief from the diet?

Is it safe to assume that *if* one feels like they're experiencing less inflammation, then their inflammation markers are down?

Thank you very much!

WELCOME, RedKingsDream:




Yes, it is possible to eat enough sugars to stay well out of ketosis. But that is not even necessary for a "Paleo-functioning" individual: Inuit peoples (Eskimos) historically never consumed very much starch, but they were not in ketosis, generally. Our bodies adapt and become fat- and protein- burners and the only thing carbohydrates seem to do is help us store energy, but the problem in most of the civilized world is how to unlock that stored energy rapidly enough. The 'crossover' time (from gluten-burner) can be considerable--weeks of fatigue and irritability--but the results are well worth it.



Dietary ketosis is very different from diabetic ketosis, and according to nearly all sources I have seen (usually related to fasting), it is considered very safe. My personal belief is that ketone bodies are very anti-inflammatory in nature and they apparently do much other good (like help take down plaque).



My ESR was once >100, and often well over 40. After starting the NSD it fell to 28 and then 19 with fasting+NSD+antibiotics and after many years reduced to 11 then 1 and today I got a result of 2 after weeks of consuming starches. I had been very strict NSD for many years, then LSD (London AS Diet), and then adding "borderline" foods back but it was a lengthy process that included gut-health work.



Perhaps it is better to know whether a person is an "indicator;" that is whether their disease activity tracks ESR. Over 40% of our fellow ASers do not have elevated inflammation markers. There is a better test for disease activity, but it has not been commercialized.

HEALTH,
John

I actually have labs that show improvement. My labs are bad, ESR/sed rate 55, crp 4.33. But when I am strict with the diet my labs improve, in fact I had a point where they were normal recently after 3 years. Then I ate some junk and starchy stuff and sure enough my labs went bad again, but I am back on and feeling so much better.
I was dxd with RA and because I had sacro illiac joint pain I thought maybe I had AS. I dont know what I have , but a disease in my mind is a group of symptoms that is given a name, so if I have RA or AS the diet is helping. However for me, I think it might be RA because meat has been giving me trouble lately...big time trouble.
I can actually see less inflammation in my knees, wrist, and elbow. There is less fluid and hot painful joints when I adhere to the diet.
I think you should try the NSD for sure, I am so grateful to have found kickas and NSD

check out sickopportunity.com

Welcome and nice to meet you!

DragonSlayer, thanks for replying.

I guess what I should have said is this: if inflammation markers seem to be tracking AS, then *if* I feel less inflammed--eg can put my hands above my head whereas otherwise would have great difficulty, can get in and out of bed with ease--is it safe to assume that inflammation markers really are down?

Vlasmum, actually your CRP doesn't sound so bad to me. You don't want to know what mine is. Thinking about it really makes me want to do what I can to bring it down.

I think my first foray into NSD put me into ketosis, as I consumed very few fruit sugars. Has anyone else experienced dry mouth when in a ketosis state?

Naj, thanks for link.

Hi!

I did the full blown SCDiet (much like NSD or very strict Paleo) a couple years ago, and I followed the big meat & egg push from all the SCDiet webpages & books. OMG, ketosis, and constant hunger, up and down moods, always hungry!

A couple years later I stumble on the kickas.org website, and now have been following a very low starch diet, and have not experienced ketosis once in the past 14 months I have been on this diet! I now eat 95% veggies, fruits, nuts & seeds, and almost no meat, and no dairy or eggs. I drink big fruit smoothies every morning, veggie curries, sunflower seed pates w/ veggies, nori sushi rolls with sunflower rice, veggie soups, mushrooms broths, sauteed mushrooms & veggies, date & nut bars, and really love it. I a bit relaxed though, as I eat a wide spectrum of veggies (including fringe ones like carrots, cauliflower, zucchini, etc) but avoid the major starches like sweet potato or banana. I have seen so much healing!!

A typical day for me, like what I ate today:

Green Tea Smoothie (homemade almond milk, handful spinach, 1 tsp matcha powder, 1 TBS honey, blend pour over ice)
Chocolate Sesame Smoothie (3 TBS sesames seeds, 1 TBS raw cacao, 2 medjool dates, dollop maple syrup, ice, blend)

Carrot Ginger (soy free/chickpea based fermented Miso) Coconut Soup. With seaweed, hemp seeds, cilantro, parlsey, green onion, homemade Sriracha sauce.

Sauteed Kale in "dragon sauce" (sauce made of tahini, sesame oil, tamari, nutrional yeast, maple syrup, garlic, water, like an Asian Peanut Sauce)

Treats: Homemade Raw Vegan Caramel Walnut Turtle Candies. (see the caramel apple recipe on my website, make the caramel, melt raw cacao powder, cacao butter, coconut sugar, pour in molds, plop on "caramel", top with walnuts & more chocolate drizzle!!)

Picture of the "turtle" chocolate I made: [img]http://pinterest.com/pin/249809110552839738/[/img]

Red Kings,
When I eat only fruits and veggies only I feel wonderful. I don't have the ketosis you mentioned. The fruits give me energy, it just takes a little while for your body to adjust to a diet free of starches.The crp should be between 1-28, mine has been as high as 1000 once, but then it stayed between 200-400 until the diet change. There is a study you can find easily by googling "vegan diet for RA". The doctors at a hospital in England restricted dairy products from a woman that had RA. Her CRP/ ESR dropped, then they challenged her with a alot of cheese the next weeek, & in one day her sed rate sky rocketed just from the dairy. My inflammation is just like this, my knees look almost normal when eating just fruits and veggies, then I introduce dairy and grains and several joints are tender and swollen.

I would follow a NSD if I were you because you have AS. I just wanted to point out that even though I have RA and follow a diet that is a little different it has improved my labs, such as the ESR.
Take care!

I started NSD a year or two ago (eating a lot of meat,cheese and full fat dairy). I went into ketosis almost immediately. Like John said, dietary ketosis is different then diabetic ketoacidosis but often confused as the same condition. There is nothing to fear with being in ketosis except being a little uncomfortable the first 2 weeks (they call it carb-flu). It is your body getting used to using its stored fat for energy. I have been in nutritional ketosis for about 6 months. I no longer have diabetes, hypoglycemia, and my AS symptoms are almost non-existant. I have also lost 52 pounds. I cannot eat enough fruit to keep me out of ketosis because I don't want the diabetes to come back. My husband had cholesterol of 271, after following a diet close to mine his cholesterol is now 163. There is a doctor in Sweden, Andreas Eenfeldt, MD, that suggests a low-carb high fat diet for optimal health. He also has a website. I would also recommend watching the documentary "Fathead". It debunks many of the "low carb is bad for you" theories and the lipid hypothesis. Just a suggestion. NSD and low carb have given me my health back.

Before NSD/low-carb, I was vegan and tried the Gerson therapy. My blood sugar and A1C skyrocketed. My AS symptoms got worse (I had to use fore-arm crutches to walk), lower-back and mid-back pain was excruciating. I had uveitis 9 times in one year. People find relief in different ways. Vegan/Gerson didn't work for me but it works for Valsmum and others. The key is to find out what works for you and stick to it.

When in ketosis, you lose the "water weight" we typically carry around when eating carbs. So you will need to drink extra water and sometimes extra sodium or potassium.

By the way, my primary doctor was skeptical at first but has seen the benefits of NSD/low-carb. Now he is cheering me on. I just wish I could get my rhuemy to listen.