Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Antibiotics & Klebsiella

Interesting study - "The incidence and number of Klebsiella in the faecal flora were examined in ten patients who received renal transplants. The faeces were examined while patients were both in and out of hospital during haemodialysis and before and after transplantation, for 2-13 months. The administration of antibiotics to treat infections was associated with a significant increase in the incidence and numbers of Klebsiella in the faecal flora." - http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/19712701054.html

Published in 1970?? And the Klebs count increased after several rounds of different types of antibiotics? Hmmmmm. Makes me think probiotics help play a part in knocking down Klebs populations. Also interesting is the finding that food plays a key roll in supporting Klebs, particularly dairy products.

Thanks for the article J.

Sheesh, do you think doctors read these studies? Wow, what an excellent find!
Last night I was thinking that whether it be allopathic antibiotics or "natural" antibiotics, you're still not getting to the cause. Then to see that allopathic antibiotics actually make it worse!!! I suppose it could be that antibiotics were taken for one thing or another and that started the downward slide.
That is interesting about the dairy. It seems as though they jumped to the conclusion that the infection came from the dairy, but I think it's more like Donette said, they play a key roll in supporting the Kleb.


Thank you, jroc,

This actually doesn't really tell us much. We aren't being told what type of antibiotics are being used and thats very important because only certain type of antibiotics can kill klebs. Tetracycline being one of them. Amoxicillin and many other antibiotics on the other hand do not kill klebs. All they'll do is kill good bacteria in your gut. This in turn will make it possible for klebs to grow more.

So until we find out what kind of antibiotics were used, we don't really know anything.

Yes it would be good to find out which particular antibiotics were used but unfortunately I can't get a copy of the full paper. There are two different versions of the abstract. In the one from the link posted above it says that "The effect of administration of a wide range of antibiotics was to increase markedly the Klebsiella flora." so it sounds like the tried a few different antibiotics. Klebsiella is resistant to penicillins but susceptible to fluoroquinolones, trimethoprimsulfamethoxazole, aminoglycosides, carbapenems, ampicillin/sulbactam, piperacillin/tazobactam, ticarcillin/clavulanate, ceftazidime, cefepime, levofloxacin, norfloxacin, gaitfloxacin, moxifloxacin, meropenem, and ertapenem.

Another paper found that antibiotics seemed to be increasing the risk of klebsiella infections in a hostpital - "Klebsiella aerogenes infection became epidemic in a neurosurgical intensivecare ward. 1 patient in 4 had chest infections, 1 in 8 had urinary infections, and 8 patients died with klebsiella meningitis. Even isolation of infected cases and treatment with massive doses of colistin failed to control the outbreak. Once antibiotics, both prophylactic and therapeutic, were discontinued in the unit, the incidence of klebsiella infection fell dramatically with no obvious ill-effects on the outcome of infections due to this or other organism." - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673670921793

Another study on risk factors for faecal carriage of klebsiella in hospitals identified previous antibiotic use as an independent risk factor - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670197901638

No surprise... I try to stay away from antibiotics best I can and strong believer in probiotics.

Tim

Well, that convinces me to avoid dairy and ABXs even more! How do the "raw milk" people not get sick, then? Seems like that would be loaded with Klebsi!

I have access to the article, please let me know if you have not yet found it, I see this post is a bit old.

I wasn't able to get a copy of the full one so if you can get hold of a copy then that would be great. I'll PM my email.