Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Scientific reason for NSD not working

Hey guys. I am new to the site and have been diagnosed AS, b27 negative, as of a month ago. I'm 26 and am in some pain at all hours of the day.

I'm trying to work the NSD but it doesn't seem to be doing anything for me. I am two weeks in, but I don't feel a bit different. The only thing I am eating is shakes made of spinach, strawberries, coconut oil, flax seed, and water, and I test each ingredient before using it, as well as the final product before consuming it. No starch.

At night I eat a white fish like tilapia, sole, shrimp, etc. These are literally the only 6-8 ingredients I have been eating for the last 13 days. I'm only on the diet as a test of the NSD, not long term.

I understand two weeks isn't enough to feel the full effects, but it seems from my reading that those who feel wonderful on the NSD can tell a marked improvement by now. I have been exclusively regimented on the above diet.

So if this diet doesn't work to any degree after 30 days, what then could be the cause of my AS? How could I possibly not feel any better on this pure NSD if the hypothesis of A. Ebringer is correct?

Are there any other hypothesis for the underlying cause of AS vs the klebsiella theory? I do not get why this could not be working.

Thanks for all replies!

Jeff

WELCOME, Jeff:

The NSD did not work so rapidly on my AS, albeit then it was really my strict version of LSD, but I was somewhat disappointed.

I *knew* there was a food connection because fasting eliminated my symptoms, and FRIED FOODS often caused flares, so I believed enough in Ebringer's work to push it to the limit and take antibiotics along with the starch-restrictive regimen.

BOY HOWDY! Within four days, I knew I absolutely hit the treatment jackpot--it was GREAT. Problem is that antibiotics have too many side effects and should not be taken on a continuous basis, so I did cycles of stronger ones and different cycles of weaker ones, and, eventually, the NSD (eliminating dairy also) alone--without antibiotics--could sustain me in a symptom-free state.

Other people have taken many months to 'learn' and then more months to notice they felt better; others give up too early out of frustration. This is a very difficult and inconvenient diet to follow, without obtaining tangible benefits. A non-subjective test--like ESR or CRP--can at least let us know we might be headed in the right direction, however over 40% of AS patients do not have these elevated inflammation markers.

And one of our members actually had to find out he had excessive amounts of mercury in his system and get chelated before the NSD was of benefit to him and this took more than a year of searching for the answers. The answers are there.

Many years ago, I had already had my amalgam removed and much later I had chelation to get over a massive flare; not knowing there could ever be any connection, so this could have been an advantage. Also, in full disclosure, I had for many years controlled my AS symptoms through fasting and I believe that this actually decreased my overall fungal load, so I do not think I ever got candidiasis from either the antibiotics or the steroids given after operations and as pain management.

NSD does not work and there is always a reason, albeit we might not have the best scientific explanation for it. I am convinced that in long-standing cases of AS, the disease activity can become so massive it is independent of the character of our content (diet) and can only really be modulated properly by antibiotics.

The Road Back Foundation has a listing of local physicians willing to help treat arthritic conditions with antibiotics, and You are more than welcome to begin with my own AP for AS.

HEALTH,
John

Hey Jeff,

We are all a bit different, I do not think their is a 1 case fits all scenario for AS.

Personally my case I believe my case of AS is tied to my intestinal health. I have to have good balance of friendly bacteria.... I avoid starch so as not to have many klebs... and eat a lot of sauerkraut to provide good bacteria.

If you really want to know if your case is tied to your intestinal health have 2-3 colonics performed by certified individual and see how you feel afterwards. When I lived in Arizona... I had them done on a regular basis. I could go from full flare to almost no AS symptoms after each. This was the clincher that my AS is tied to my intestinal health.

Take care,

Tim

hey jeff
i have been on the diet for about four months.. it is tricky and doesnt necessarily clear up from eating foods without starch. everything got a lot worse for me for awhile because i was not eating enough variety in my diet, and developed other health problems because my body wasnt nourished from what i was eating. everyone's body is different and unique... it takes a while to figure out sometimes and can be a really exhausting process. i am still figuring things out. i think a fast would probably tell you whether or not your AS is gut related.
i am realizing that a low carb diet does not work for me and that i need a variety of foods to feel energy. i am still very low starch, but when i was testing everything it really cut back on so many foods that i was able to have and kind of made me crazy. i am experiencing pain still, but it has gone down overall.. and i know this because i tried experimenting with rice the other day.. and i am paying for it now.
i wish you well on your journey into finding out what your body needs and wants...
if you read the posts in the forums you will realize that everyone is different, and that everyone here has really good advice too! keep posting!

kelly

John, Tim, and Kelly, thank you so much for replying!

I was thinking initially that it could take some time to figure everything out for myself. Thank you all for reaffirming this.

I am willing and devoted to finding a diet that will control my AS. Whatever it may be. I would eat nothing but a substrate three times a day if it would allow me to function like a normal person.

John,I read your posts often. They are always helpful. Thanks so much for your anti-biotic protocol! That will help me out a ton.

Tim, I am going to try a 3 day fast, water only, to see if I can be pain free. I think my results there will guide me. If I get nothing the first time, I will try it with a colonic and see if that helps. I think experiencing a full day without pain brought on by holding my head the wrong way will be an eye opener and a true moment of clarity in tying this to my gut. Thanks a ton for recommending the colonic.

Thanks guys. I will keep you updated with anything that yields results so that the whole community may benefit.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,
Just wondering how it's going? Would love to know your progress!

Cheers,
Emily

Hey, Emily! Hey, all!

I aborted my above NSD attempt a few days after posting due to the lack of food groups being consumed and poor results. But I'm still full speed onto the next thing

I have just today begun a water fast that I hope will last for 10 days. I have two weeks off of work to do so, with a fiancee who works only 3 days a week to "sit" me.

My preparation for this was a month of consuming exclusively ultra nutrient-dense raw vegetables (70%), lean fish (10-15%), sprouted nuts/seeds (5-10%), unrefined starches (5-10%), as well as super food herbs such as alphalpha, red clover, turmeric, cinnamon, garlic, burdock, gotu kola, ginko, and milk thistle. I took shots of flax oil, EVCO, and olive oil for staying power w/ my energy level.

I have begun today.

I realize this is a drastic approach, but my rationale stems from two directions.

Firstly from a study I read (which I will try to locate and link) where rheumatoid arthritis patients fasted greater than 7 days and returned to a vegan diet, were still symptom free 8 years later during a follow up. The patients who returned to a normal diet OR who only fasted a few days fell back into symptoms.

Two, the state of my life and thoughts the past few months, which have been wholly confined to worry and fear and anger. Physical manifestations of emotional stress have begun showing up on my body which is something I never thought could happen to my easy-going self.

I absolutely NEED to feel results from something.

Due to the length and restriction of the fast I decided against a colonic to start it off, though I did eat two organic fiber bars followed by several servings of raw veggies and shots of raw flax oil, which brought on several bowel movements to empty myself out. I want my gut flora load to diminish so that I may repopulate it with probiotics, saurkraut, raw foods, etc. after the fast.

I will be drinking only water and a little bit of coconut water from coconuts I crack open myself, with some pinches of sea salt for electrolytes.

When I come out of the fast I will return to a 100% raw vegan diet with heavy probiotic use to establish healthy colonies and hopefully kill off or mediate harmful strains that may have died or weakened during the 10 day period of starvation.

Does anyone have any thoughts? I need input on the probiotics if anyone has any! I am doing research into them now so I can avoid taking suspect strains, especially since probiotics now are all too popular and there seem to be tons of them floating around with numerous brand names, potency, etc.

My goal is to get my gut flora back to the state it was before I became a college student drinking caffeine, booze, and living off boxed pasta.

What are your thoughts, guys? Think this will work?! Thanks for reading my massive post, and thanks for your replies.

Best of luck to everyone

Jeff

Hi, Jeff:




No.

I KNOW it will work.

I have passed the 10 day mark many times even up to 20 days which resulted in a solid and prolonged remission that I hope for You, also. You have the advantage now, of knowing what not to eat upon resumption of consumption.

But I want to suggest that if NSD alone did not seem to work so well, the potential for heavy metal issues. One fellow had no results with diet, although fasting worked wonders and he eventually found out he had very high levels of mercury. I think after enough chelation, he was able to do NSD to successfully control his symptoms.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have done chelation and had all my amalgam removed many years before doing NSD and antibiotics.

Usually, fasting works by day four or five and eventually all symptoms--except permanent damage--will disappear.

Be careful with the probiotics; there are starchy substrates that will bring back unwanted guests. Look for pectin substrates, instead.

Careful breaking the fast after so many days. It is important to begin eating again in slow steps and eat nothing physically hard and nothing raw; only soft cooked foods for first couple of meals.

Take plenty of EFA (even GLA) before eating anything.

And remember, invest one day and the headache is gone and invest two days and the hunger is almost gone and each moment is an investment in Your health and it is a difficult thing to keep doing 'false starts,' so the third day and still have to brush off the white deposit from tongue and inside mouth, too but remember not to back down and after day four the energy comes back and You are a ketone-burner, consuming self and consuming AS symptoms!

Now is the time to remember to be aware that 'mind is the builder,' and take time for introspection--listen to Your inner wisdom and Your body.

You will overcome this, through sheer will and the blessing of strength from those around You.

Speaking of which, I almost never told people I was fasting--everybody has an 'opinion!' Almost always wrong.

HEALTH,
John

If there was ever a diet plan I wish doctors would perscribe to their patients for a whole rainbow of different health issues, it is the diet plan you have listed.


My only change would be to drink fresh fruit/veggie/green juices instead of water, but you are still right on for drinking water, I just found it was so easy for me to do 14 days of green juices and not feel like I was depriving myself, cuz I still went "shopping" every night for dinner, and that was satisfying. Even though "dinner" was fresh juice, it was fun to make different combinations, plus I loved getting the blast of nutrients. But I commend you fully (and have a HUGE RESPECT!) for you doing a water fast, it is totally normal for all living things to go periods of time without food, and our bodies were designed for it!

I personally find plenty of probiotics in raw fermented Bubbies (and homemade) sauerkraut, Bubbies raw pickles, storebought kombucha, homemade water kefir, I no longer take any factory make pill for probitoics, and feel better for it!

Also, I mostly eat a raw low starch vegan diet, and it's awesome. It gives me so much energy and so little inflammation.

My last 2 cents - this diet just takes time, sounds like you were on the diet very similar to mine the last month, but it seems like it takes the average person 5 MONTHS of that exact diet to really dramatically notice a change in symtoms, less inflammation, feel better. Fasting will definitely speed it along.

Just know we are all rooting for you, and can't wait to hear about your results!!!

Thanks for sharing!!
Andrea

John and Andrea, you have me all geared up after those posts!

I feel just awesome! Thanks so much.



Thanks for reminding me! I forgot to mention I was planning on making a veggie soup to SLOWLY wean myself back onto for the first few days. Thinking of doing a veggie bouillon (iodine tested) with some onions, carrots, celery, and parsley.



I had never considered this. I do not have any fillings, however I do have two cavities I recently noticed when someone emphasized the link between oral and overall health. I am working on saving up some money to have them addressed. But for the heavy metal poisoning, there's still a chance I could have heavy metal? I will undoubtedly have this checked pending my results. I do eat a lot of fish, though a lot is farm raised for this specific purpose. But not the tuna, and not the salmon. Hmm. I have also lived in four cities in the last 3 years.

Andrea,
I was super happy to see you responded because I have admired your diet many times. I wish to adopt one exactly like it when I return. I checked out your recipes a few times also! I have my eye on those caramel apples

The only reason I don't do juices is because I feel like I have tried that, with addition to lean fish, and it did me no good except controlling the inflammation from being full blown flair. I was still totally limited and fully uncomfortable. But like you said, I did not give it long enough if it often takes 5 months for many. That is certainly exciting to hear.



This is my favorite. I subscribe completely to every word listed here. This is an investment I am fully prepared to make.

I was at Target after reading this and saw some calorie free herbal tea and almost bought it, then I thought "no false starts!" Maybe not the hugest botchery of a diet, but thanks, John, for catching me there.

I'll be sure to report back with my progress.

Thanks guys. I'm feeling good .

Jeff