Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; No/Low Starch Diet Success Stories

I should have said, " could be harmful". Now you ask for evidence. Resistant starch reaches the large intestine. It may be protective from cancer. In just a few minutes of searching, I have found this study paper that shows that starches may protect against DNA damage in the gut ....."
resistant starch DNA protection

and here is another , saying health benefits of whole grains

health benefits of whole grains

This is only after ten minutes of looking, there could be many more papers.

So there are potential benefits to starch as well. So the question of whether the low starch diets are real or simply people having natural remissions, is all the more important to question ...

I completely disagree with this statement. Please do a literature search on Pubmed, and you will not find any papers that repeat the success of the original study. As you know, scientific proof is based on different groups testing out the idea. So how can you say scientific community has endorsed it. Who has endorsed it? You will find that all the papers are from one team, i.e. Dr. Erbinger. Please give us the links to any other papers that clinically prove that the starch diet works.

I don't mean to sound rude, but it seems to me that you are just not getting it. Several of us have stated that we are free from our symptoms as long as remain strict on the diet....which is called being in remission. Anytime you aren't experiencing your AS pains is called remission, however it happens, by means of diet, drugs, or your body naturally doing it itself.

As far as your statements of us just experiencing placebo, how do you explain that we are symptom free, as you are calling a placebo, but then the next time we eat starch either intentionally or unintentionally, our symptoms return. It is clearly not placebo, rather a cause and effect.

If you believe grains are good for you, then good for you! There have been a lot of studies claiming this or that is good for you, then at some point they turn around and change their mind.

What I did was stop listening to what other people, doctors, governments, pharmaceuticals, and others and instead started listening to MY BODY. I eat things that don't make me hurt and avoid things that do. That simple. Do I really care what the long term health risks are (I know there are none). NO, because I am pain free and have been for a while now ever since starting the diet. THAT'S what matters to me. And I did it without drugs and doctors. End of story.

I should have mentioned , that I meant colon cancer. I also should have mentioned "may increase risk of cancer". That is a serious mistake on my part.

Now the question is, can low starch diets increase risk of cancer ? Who knows, but, it is a possibility. Look at this link, which says that starch may have a protective effect.

benefits of resistant starch

What I meant to say , is that if starch diet is a placebo diet, then there is actual harm continuing it.

well. then don't. continue it. if you feel better and safer that way. that's all.

This board about sharing thoughts, not only discussing about oneself only. Unless the moderators of this forum think free thinking is not permitted in this board. I am continuing the diet, to see what effect it has.

then you should pay attention to what people tell you in that other thread regarding your diet.
Stop eating processed foods for one.
If i would eat sausages i would be on feet every 3 a.m. in the morning. From the pain, that is.

Some people may see NSD as something like: iodine turns black - don't eat. if not, eat it... it's not so simple. there's more than no starch for some of us. at least for me there is.

did you kept a food&health journal? did you rotate your foods at least 3 days to see if there's something offending in there?

and if you're doing something you're convinced it will not work, and it seems to me that you're convinced... why doing it at all?

I am my own litmus test, as to how going NS is for me. For every study you can pull up/out...I and others can pull up ones that disagree. I don't see moderators doing anything negative, unlike you who seems to love to take a bucket of cold water and dump it on someone who is trying NS/LS....Share all you want...on a thread you start..don't high jack someone elses thread.

I agree with Alinus....why bother when you have already decided it won't work for you?

On the other hand, the standard medical studies are being done on people who eat more processed food, which raises risk of DNA damage to begin with. If one can afford to eat fruit, vegetables, and meat from more naturally-raised livestock, then there are less toxins for your body to have to deal with (less but not none, some toxins are intrinsic to the food rather than manufactured pesticides and preservatives).

In fact, for those of us living in the United States, a leader in introducing new chemicals and genetic alterations to the food supply... the typical diet seems to be really, really bad for cancer risk. So being forced to stay away from conventional foods may actually be a blessing in disguise.

"Correlation is not causation but with the Centers for Disease Control now reporting that cancer is the leading cause of death by disease in children under the age of fifteen, that there has been a 265% increase in the rates of hospitalizations related to food allergic reaction, it is worth noting that 'no evidence of harm' is not the same as 'evidence of no harm.'
http://www.robynobrien.com/_blog/Articles_From_Past_to_Present/post/An_Idea_Worth_Spreading,_A_Dialogue_Worth_Having/

Yes but if you stopped drinking coffee and ALL your symptoms subsided or reduced significantly and only reappeared when you again drank coffee and this happened repeatedly...well then you might be onto something! This is what occurs when people do the NSD and it works for them.

I can understand your skepticism, as I felt a little bit this way when my husband Jon first started the diet. But the proof is in the pudding as they say and 8 years on he is still doing well as long as he sticks to the diet. When he strays (knowingly or accidentaly) his symptoms come back so it's not placebo. I don't think a placebo could last 8 years? I know the mind is powerful but that's bit much! Also prediet his AS was showing no signs of slowing down but was very aggressive and spreading throughout his body so a spontaneous remission seems unlikely. And actually even now I wouldn't say he is in remission. Remission is a complete absence of disease activity but his disease is still active. He still has daily low level pain 1st thing in the morning but not enough to need meds and it doesn't interfere with any aspects of his life.

I know some people talk about natural remission but from what I've seen on KickAS it isn't that common. Most remissions I have read about are drug induced and maintained (come off the drugs come out of remission) or diet induce and maintained. And from what I understand "burn out" when it does happen usually occurs after AS has finished ravishing the body and extensive fusion has occurred. Symptoms tend to move around the body when the disease is active. Having a knee inflamed and then it go down but then the neck is in trouble...well I wouldn't say that's remission as the disease is still active and affecting the body elsewhere which is typical of AS.



This is where we may have to agree to disagree. I do not believe the NSD is harmful in any way. When I look at Jon's diet now compared to his diet before there is just no comparison. He eats fruit and veg, meat, eggs, coconut flour and some dairy in the form of yoghurt and hard cheese. Very little processed food except for a bit of mayo here and there and such like. We don't actually find the diet difficult at all. Previously he was 20kg overweight and ate the typical diet of processed foods and refined starches with lots of bread, cakes etc etc. And his diet is not low carb as he still consumes fruit and sugar (in moderation) in the form of baking done with coconut flour (which is very high fibre BTW). So I don't believe he is in any danger of possible perceived risks from a low carb diet.

Of course whole grains are good for us (not that the average Jo Bloggs diet contains many but that's another topic!) and the NSD may not be the 'ideal' diet but Jon had a choice and neither one was great...take a cocktails of meds with their side effects (prednisone, NSAIDS, methotextrate etc) and hope they help without causing too much trouble or do this diet and hope it helps (without causing too much trouble). And it has .

It is true that the diet hasn't been proved scientifically by anyone other than Ebringer. Perhaps one day it will be and maybe it will turn out to be another reason that it works other than the Kleb theory, who knows. But in the meantime we just have Ebringer's theory to go on and a few other leads and much anecdotal evidence. For me, that's enough, along with seeing Jon's health and quality of life returned. Perhaps it's not enough for you and that's OK.

If you want to prove to yourself the connection between diet and AS symptoms then I would suggest a simple fast for 2 or 3 days. Some people do a fruit and water fast (just be sure the fruit tests OK). This has always been the quickest way out of a flare for Jon and it may help you also. He would usually do it with green seedless grapes but these can cause diarrhea for some people if they eat too many.

All the best