Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion #1 AS Web Support Group Robb Wolf (paleodiet) podcast on AS

http://robbwolf.com/2010/07/20/the-paleolithic-solution-episode-37/

About 30 minutes in, Wolf answers a question about AS. Really parallels what many have experienced here.

The paleo/starch-free diet didn't work for me, but I'm interested that he says to pull out eggs, seeds, and nuts at first. I think I'm going to try this to see what happens. I really binged on these since I couldn't have other food. Does anyone have experience with this?

It hurts to hear how "deadly serious" we need to take our disease.

Thanks. I took a listen. No eggs (whether at first or, really, at any juncture)! Yikes! Yes, it was interesting to hear him opine how serious we need to take this disease.

Also, topic number two, coconut water, was an added plus. That stuff is great down here in the steamy South (although a little pricey). Screw the post-workout aspect, it might just be the best rehydration drink on the face of this earth.

Hi, Lindyap:


The very strictest NSD worked for me, and I eat eggs often.

What worked better for me was the combination of antibiotics with strict diet; otherwise at first the improvements due to NSD were just barely perceptible.

Even with the NSD+antibiotics, apple regimen, and fasting, it took over three years before all symptoms were eliminated and another couple of years before I lost my food sensitivities to now become much more tolerant of starches.

So I really do not know which day of a person's struggle with NSD to pronounce "it did not work for me;" I know that it does not seem to work for some, and have struggled with some people I was convinced were doing their best but diet alone just never did it for them after even a full year. What makes me skeptical is the ESR chart (in "Cross-tolerance Hypothesis...") wherein over 95% of people with AS improve measurably, but many of these would not sense they had improved after 90 days because their ESRs were so high to begin with; their pain needle was already pegged so it is a very subjective thing: I could not tell the difference in my levels of pain between ESR of 45 and 70, but I could sure tell the difference between 19 and 28 and with NSD and antibiotics I have been as low as 9 from over 100 many years ago.

I have had a copy of "The Paleolithic Prescription," for many years and just like Giraud Campbell's "A Doctor's PROVEN New Home Cure for Arthritis," WISH I had followed the advice back then--soon enough to avoid the damage I am stuck with now!


Regards,
John

Jaybird - I just noticed you're in Atlanta. I'm in Athens, GA. Good to know someone's local! I second the coconut milk/water...I'm eating some right now in a fish chowder. Mmmm.

Amen, DragonSlayer. I'm glad the Paleodiets are gaining popularity. I think the focus on quality meats and fresh organic veggies and low-to-no grain will keep many people from going down our track.

I was no starch for 6 months with no improvement. I'm curious to try it again but to take his advice to withhold eggs and nuts at the beginning. He does mention to get off of them...and then play with putting them back in later. If I've learned one thing from this board, it's that we're all slightly different. It pays to keep trying new food ideas.

Hi John,

Have you ever tried Neomycin.
As you probably know it's an antibiotic that isn't absorbed much beyond the gut and is active against most Gram Negative Bacteria.

Sometimes I think that AS might be driven by any of the Gram Negitives (and not just Klebsiella) in the gut (leaky gut / IBS compromised) by a mechanism of recognition of LPS (lipopolysaccaride) by gut dendritic cells / macrophages via TLR4 (Toll Like Receptors 4).

Notably intestinal epithelial cells also have TLR4 receptors and are considered an immune organ in their own right.

The logic would be consistent with yours in that the mucosal lining of the gut would have to be restored in order to combat the effects of AS.

The activated monocytes / macrophages have a tendency to adhere to fibro-cartilage and this would explain why AS damage is directed by an auto-inflammatory (innate) means against radial and peripheral aspects of the skeleton (in addition to the gut inflammation).

I agree totally that fasting can knock down the inflammation of AS but my NSD approach alone is no longer working for me and am looking to try antibiotics.

I would be interested in getting a copy of your antibiotic protocol and hope my GP (a new one) will be more sympathetic to this appraoch than the last doctor I had.

Cheers David P.




Activated monacr

Thank you for this Lindyap I eat similarly to the paleo way, no processed, all natural etc, I began with mainly meat, fish, poultry, certain veg, herbs etc. then later i added the following in small amounts.

Fruits, lemon, lime and berries only. I am certain I am fine with organic eggs, but I am more careful with dairy. I prefer raw milk products when ever possible, the lower the carbs and lactose I find better too. I think I am OK with small amount of nuts and seeds. I avoid the wheat, legumes and nightshades mentioned, just like Robb suggested

Some folk think this way of eating is hard, but I find it simplifies life and now that I rarely get poorly and my strength is right up, I do not miss the modern western diet any more.

I am just glad that I removed all the starch. I did not remove all of it ( was still eating 20g)until I came here to this site. Since then health has been improving in leaps and bounds

There is a little more to it than the stuff I mention here but as you all know if you want to know more about any of this you can send me a PM

Love Joanne

David

I do not know what this gram negative stuff means, but I do know that by eating paleo (with certain supplements) and repairing my gut so many of my health problems have died down. I am thinking perhaps this is the same thing you are talking about but that maybe I do not have the correct terminolgy.

Like you, I use fasting, short water fasts from 1 to 3 days. But what I think helps me more so, is remaining in ketosis once the fast is over. If this makes sense

Anyway, this thread is very interesting to me and I hope that you and the others will continue sharing on this subject

Love joanne

Hi John

Your shares help me stay on the right track and they really are appreciated

Love Joanne

Jaybird

I was using the coconut water but stopped buying it because it is expensive here in England. I am now thinking this may have been a mistake because I constantly use other coconut products like the flesh and oil and these are very healing. Now you have mentioned the coconut water again I am thinking I might give it another bash

Thank you kindly

Love joanne

Here is a podcast from Robb Wolf that covers Crohns and fibromyalgia and also talks about why rice and corn can affect folk in a similar way as wheat gluten often affects people

http://robbwolf.com/2010/10/05/the-paleo-solution-episode-48/

Love Joanne