Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Apple fast.

Since it's the seccond nigth i've walked around my home instead of sleeping i've decided to start the 3 day's apple fast and then go back to NSD.

Will see how my UC will say about this

So sorry you had a bad night. Good luck with the apple fast and NSD! Hope you feel better soon.

Peace

thank's Erica.

One question for those who've done the apple fast - does your stool contained undigested apples during that period?

Hey there
Hope the fast does the trick for you, Alinus.
Sending lots of postive thoughts and strenth your way while you are doing your fast

Kiwi mentioned previously that her husband does green-grape fasts instead of apple fasts; I wonder if that is easier on the digestion?

Mine did not. In fact I didn't go at all during the apple fast, even after the olive oil. That's not normal for me either, so I don't know what was going on.

Also, I tested the first apple, and it was fine, then AFTER the three days, I test a few a had left over and both were starchy!? So I feel sure I ate starch for three days, despite getting the "Jonathan" variety specied by Cayce. :-(

so, i've finished it, but only 2 days and a half.

Yesterday i had a visit from some friends and i could't stop eating some cheddar cheese and having a couple of beers in the evening.

I've got into diarrhea right away after... I've settled myself with some blueberries. And the AS pain got back this night, not in the same strenght, but it's there.

Too bad it happened. Next time I will try to do all 3 days, since there seemed to have some effects. Starting today i''m back on NSD.

Because this computer i am using is working so badly i have not yet been able to study the protocol. but tomorrow morning i am going to the to use the computer there, and will hopefully be able to read to my hearts content. so if i ask something that i should already know, my sincere apologies.

What i want to ask is this, would i have to use fruit to fast or can i just water fast?

I do not ever eat sugar foods, I have other complaints that prevent this. I do not want to even try to tolerate the symptoms unless i really have to. It is the same with the starch. I do believe i can get off this quickly. Water fasting has in the past helped me eliminate sugar, diet coke, cigarettes, cakes, biscuits, ad it helped me lower my starch to 20g. Now i know that i must remove the starch from my diet I will do so. I do not like it anyway. This stuff has not just give me physical pain and disability, it has taken the life i would have had. So many people think i am stupid, because i have never had a correct diagnosis. I cannot any longer tolerate the crippling affect of this illness, neither physically or psychologically. You people here have no idea, really no idea how much you are saving a life here.

You have told me something that nobody has been able to tell me in over 20 years. There is no way I am going to mess about now. This is my chance to a better quality life and i am determined, but not in an agressive way, in a joyful way, I will be off these starch foods withi a month, if I am not already off them. I have water fasted these two days and my pain at this point is almost zero. If that does not prove that what you are telling me is correct then what else could be?

I have water fasted i the past but always slowly introduced starchy carbs later. There is no way i will be doing that, unless i do it in error.

I will not be eating sugar either. I may reluctantly eat some of the nuts seeds and vegetables that are listed as very safe, but even them will only be added in the very smallest amounts

I do not like carbohydrate in any form. To me it is evil. I have never ever had any trouble with fat or protein in any way. These are the foods i will be eating from now on

The body can survive a long time without carbohydrate. By the time i decide to start adding it back in i will be 100% certain that the carb foods i add are starch free. But like i have said, i believe whole heartedly all what you have all told me

It is starch feeding the bacteria and it is my immune system attacking my back because of this. I know this is so because i have always known this in a round about way. I just did not know it was specifically starch that was feeding the bacteria

Now i know, i am so happy, I feel blessed in fact. In fact i feel relieved. tonight i feel great. But i do feel great when i fast and i do not eat carbohydrate. So it really is good bye for me. I just need to determine what handful of carbs i am going to keep simply so i can get fibre and vitamin C. Which nowadays i can get from supplements istead if i choose to. I hate carbs and they hate me so either i put up with them or get rid of them, and believe me i am so happy to say good bye

Honestly, i have suffered not just in pain, and in deformaty, but also in ridicule because of this illness. I cannot thank any of you enough for what you have done, telling me about this starch. You have changed my life completely. I know i am warbling but i am so very happy tonight. I feel like an enormous weight has been taken from my shoulders.

Love joanne

hi joanne

i feel the same way about kickAS and everyone here. im so glad you feel youre getting long awaited answers. this AS robs us of more than most ppl care to understand. its tough, to say the least.

though we can survive w/out carbs, i dont know how long before it gets dangerous. ive never cut out carbs, ive only cut out starch. i would make sure you really know what youre doing w/ such a restrictive diet. you can keep the starch out but have plenty of carbs thru veggies and other various non sugar foods.

one thing ive learned so far in my short time here is that testing food w/ iodine is soooo important. its great theres a food list but its not perfect. ex: what one person claims to be starch free in one country may b starchy in another. ex: you may get a starch free cauliflower this time but next time it might be starchy. ex: someone here recently did 3 day apple fast. they iodine tested the first apple = starch free. after the fast decided to test a few leftover apples = turned black = starch.

if you dont mind me asking.. where are you from?
i think its great that you can get pain free in so little time. i would say after your fast maybe just dont eat anymore starch and see ify- you maintain the no pain status. i would be sure you get some carbs though. they say we only need 50-100g/carbs/day anyway so that shouldnt be too hard to accomplish.

are you going to ask doc for HLA-B27 test? i really hope your appt goes well. be confident but pleasant


edit: sorry i didnt answer your Q and went off subject a bit.

Hi Sunnypower

I regularly use fasting to gain pain relief. I have only been eating 20g of starch carbs for a few years. I have for a long time new carbs cause my pain, i just did not know it was specifically the starch

As you know i currently do a ketogenic diet. This diet means that instead of glucose we use fat for energy. Very high amounts of fat. Most of us do eat carbohydrate but we aim to keep our total carbs below 30g each day. I have been doing this and generally eating about 20g starch and 10g non starch. All the food i eat is on-processed, and a lot of it is organic, and some raw, ie raw eggs and cheese from raw milk

Right now i am happy not to be eating any carbohydrate. I really cannot be bothered with it. I do not like it and i do not think it ever does me any good. If i do not eat carbohydrate my ketone level will go very high and i will not just burn energy better from the fat, my body will powerfully detox toxins

i am not advocating that anybody else should do this, i have been working with ketosis for a very long time and i understand a lot about how it works

Anyway, regarding the reintroduction of carbohydrate. Right now the only carbs i would consider are those contained in nuts and seeds but as you have all shown me here even some of these contain starch so i am going to have to be picky about which uts i am going to use. Herbs too, appear to be OK so i may allow them in. As for the other vegetable items a few of them maybe ok, but i have to be honest, the day has come when frankly i have had enough

i feel like this illness is a mind game. i feel like it is Russian roulette. I feel like it is a load of ballony. I have had over 20 years of going around and around and around and around the same old boring mountain

And this carb thing, honestly i am sick to death of hearing dont eat gluten, dont eat lactose, dont eat sugar, dont eat fructose, dont eat starch, you must eat some grains, you must eat some fruit, you must eat some vegetables, you must eat...................... what a load of rubbish all this is, none of it is good for me and i don't like any of it anyway

I tell the doctor, if i eat carbs my back flares up and i get confused thinking, he tells me it is anxiety. I say my joints murder, he says do you want to see a psychologist. I say if i eat carbohydrate i get IBS, he says go on a low fat diet. I say when i eat carbs i get stomach cramps and feel like i have the flu, he says take anti-depressants. And it is not always the same doctor, they all come out with the same rubbish

I tell them i cannot walk when i eat carbs, they say take antidepressants, see a shrink, and go on a low fat diet

I say i think i am allergic to carbohydrate they say, there is no such thing

And this goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on ad on

Anyway, i do know folk that do not eat carbs. they have been telling me to get off them but i refused thinking that a point is going to come when my body will adjust and start accepting them. But this is not going to happen with this ilness is it

If i eat starch, it will be triggered again and i will be progressing my illness. If i eat sugar i will trigger my Fibromyalgia and other stuff

the cheese may be ok, certain nuts, seeds and herbs, and maybe a few veg. but you know what, i cannot see the point in feeling like rubbish for eating food that i just do ot like for what ever reason. what is the reason?

Most of the nutrients available in carb foods are available in fat and protein foods. vitamin C and fibre are the two that are not available in true protein foods, so i can use supplements or perhaps the nuts and herbs, in a very small dose

I think that if i stay away from carbohydrate for a while my gut may get a chance to heal, and maybe in time i will be able to tolerate some of this poison. but whilst i cannot tolerate it what is the point is torturing ths sufering body any more with it

I don't know. I will spend the next few days searching to see which are the ultra safe foods here and see how much they tie up with what i feel i am safe with for my fibro.

I do not want any of you here to worry or think it is any of you that have influenced me into this. I was overdue a fast anyway. I normally do a water fast once a month anyway, and this month i have left it seven weeks.

Normally i just go one day with it and then the following days eat just minimal nuts seeds and veg so i can get into ketosis, but then for the rest of the month i struggle, clearly because i have been eating starch

this month i have gone almost 3 days without eating and i feel really good. I am properly in ketosis, and if any of you have ever tried fasting you will know that once ketosis sets in there are no hunger pangs what so ever

i have decided i am introducing some of the fats and protein today but i am not introducing any carbs for afew days. I need to think carefully about what i want to do about that

Nuts and seeds may be ok, perhaps some herbs, perhaps some green vegetables. But it is not going to be 30g, no way, no way. I might go to 15g because this is the minimum amont normally recommended, but honestly i do think we can survive without them

Anyway we will see. If i do not eat any starch there maybe some scope. I do need fibre and vitamin C would be better from plants that supplements.

Mmmmm. right now i dont feel like them at all, maybe i a few days i might feel it better to eat them. I know the fibre helps with meat digestion. But honestly, i really have come to the end of my rope with this.

I told you all i am seeing a rhumatologist, well today i went to see my doctor and i have booked myself in with a neurologist too. Between them they should be able to fathom something out

Why do we not get help? why is it all we get is humilation? Why is it none of them know about this starch thing? they don't even know about the sugar with the Fibromyalgia. Why don't they know? Why do we have to be on our own? and work all this out for ourselves? why do we have to suffer crippling pain and deformaty when there are tests already available?

Even now, my GP does not believe i have AS and my physio has never even mentioned it although she knows all my symptoms and knows my sacriolic joint is messed up and that i get upper back pain, joint pain etc. She knows i have a problem with the carbohydrate too

Anyway, for the first time in a long time, i am not only doing well from fasting my heart is at peace because i finally know what is up with me. I know i have not had the tests, but i know, I know alright, this starch thing is enough to tell anybody, and then all the other symptoms. It is very bad that they have ever tested me before now

Anyway, I feel good, so i am savouring it. the rest will fall into its place soon enough i am sure

Love joanne