Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion #1 AS Web Support Group FASTING

This is for those who are interested; a re-posting from a few years ago and it is still relevant. Fasting takes down the worst flare for me every single time.


A friend, Alex, has just completed a 28 day fast. He recently went in for his biennial colonoscopy, and noticed how ‘cleaned-out’ he felt after the magnesium citrate cocktails, so he just kept to a non-food, water only (except for a very few vitamins and minerals) regimen. The only real reason for this fast was that he had been gaining weight, and while not that particular about his looks, he is rather too stingy to pay for another wardrobe. Of course he was aware of the many side benefits: Renewed vigor, plaque reduction, and quite a number of other things that might also reduce his future medical costs.

I’m proud of Alex, but a bit jealous, as the most time I ever fasted was 20 days and, find it increasingly more difficult to fast for long, being married and even with an only moderate social agenda. Years ago Alex bought Garten’s book “’Civilized’ Diseases and Their Circumvention,” and was duly impressed with Garten’s fasting experiences. I don't really endorse fasting as a way to lose weight, but it was a way for Alex to begin the Atkin's Diet with a leg-up.

I did more research on fasting, in an effort to discover what could be incentive enough to encourage someone to do this. After my 20 day fast, I was nearly symptom-free, albeit still ignorant of proper diet against AS, so the pains did return, eventually. I have fasted many times since, to take down flares and eliminate ulcers and experiment with my blood pressure readings; they fully normalize at day four.

Perhaps a crippling level of this disease is not enough incentive for some people to fast, and I cannot deny that VERY few doctors know enough about fasting to recommend such a discipline. What I DO know is that it eliminates nearly all inflammation, and is much easier to follow than any diet.

And I do not know whether fasting is healthy for everyone; certainly there are some few who might be harmed by such a measure. When I was visiting a Moroccan marketplace (Asilah) early in one Ramadan, an elderly Berber spice seller fell dead from a heart attack. Apparently she had some other health problems and was under some emotional stress, also. Well Ramadan is not technically a fast, anyway; it is just an inconvenient turnabout of the daily routine, employed as a mnemonic device; she had probably only been without food for a very few hours.

The fact a bit glossed over in the Paleodiets is that we evolved from creatures experiencing very frequent cycles of feast and famine. For some reason, we moderns have ignored the famine part of the natural cycle under the false notion that it is unnatural, unnecessary, or even unhealthy.

The principal lesions in AS are most often located exactly at the transition from the small intestine to the bowel. Constant irritation from the presence and processes of digesting foods will result in a wear-out mechanism that never allows for proper healing. To draw a mechanical analogy, it is like the camshaft surface worn through its case hardening; it is no longer a useful bearing surface and then soon loses eccentricity. Fortunately, unlike the camshaft, our own bearing surfaces (the mucosa) can regenerate, if we give them a chance to do so.

I know that, in my case, it is time for more of this Spring cleaning! If some of this makes sense to anyone else, I would be happy to send them Garten's chapter on fasting (attachment as a .doc file), as encouragement.


Some famous (and infamous) fasts (except for last entry)

Moses 40 days/40 days
INCENTIVE: Guidance/penance

Pythagoras 40 days
INCENTIVE: Mental clarity

Socrates 10 days (repeated)
INCENTIVE: Mental clarity

Jesus 40 days
INCENTIVE: Purification

Medieval times:
Numerous Ascetics worldwide include Cathars, and many monks fasted to death.

The Donner Party approximately 25 days (The Reed family)*
INCENTIVE: Forced isolation in extreme environment

Dr. Henry S. Tanner 42 days
INCENTIVE: General health and publicity

William H. Hay, MD (and patients) many times >10 days
INCENTIVE: Restoration of health (Bright’s Disease and patients’ appendicitis)

Professor Arnold Ehret 49 days
INCENTIVE: General health and publicity to educate physicians

Bernarr McFadden >40 days
INCENTIVE: General health

Upton Sinclair 30 days (nonconsecutive)
INCENTIVE: General health

M. K. Gandhi many fasts >14 days/16 days
INCENTIVE: Indian independence/Indian unity

Dr. Otto Buchinger (>100 day juice; many juice fasts >44 days)
INCENTIVE: Restoration of health (arthritis)

Dr. Max O. Garten 28 days (many subsequet various lengths)
INCENTIVE: Restoration of health (angina)

Old Christians Club Uruguayan Rugby team: 10 days before eating anyone*
INCENTIVE: Forced isolation in extreme environment

Dick Gregory 45 days ( 288# before series of fasts; 97# after longest)
INCENTIVE: Vietnam conflict; later, 1000 days juices only
INCENTIVE: Michael Jackson’s plight and/or lymphoma

Bobby Sands (& 9 other protesters) 66 days (blind day 61; dead day 66)
INCENTIVE: N. Ireland’s independence/treatment of prisoners

David Blane 44 days
INCENTIVE: Money ($5M) and publicity

Alex 28 days
INCENTIVE: Weightloss

About David Blane: Jeremy Ward, professor of respiratory cell physiology at Kings College, London, is quoted as saying: “I think he is a complete idiot. There are enough starving people in the world. For someone to starve themself as a publicity stunt - I don't think morally it is something which you should do for glamour or glory or money.”


*These entries are provided, not for any shock value, but to emphasize that our environment during the fast is very important, but so is some rudimentary knowledge about the capacity of the body to endure, even in extreme situations. Had some of these people known more about fasting, perhaps they would not have felt the need to resort to that food source, although I do not claim they would have otherwise lived.

Some time after the ordeal, a lady recognized one of the Rugby team members while riding on a bus, and thought that he looked almost too healthy, with the speculation that his brief dietary folly gave him that special ‘something.’ It was probably the fast—more than the food—that provided an obvious measure of rejuvenation.

" What I DO know is that fasting eliminates nearly all inflammation, and is much easier to follow than any diet."

You may know it, but it is a very personal opinion. Not accepted in biology.

"Perhaps a crippling level of this disease is not enough incentive for some people to fast, and I cannot deny that VERY few doctors know enough about fasting to recommend such a discipline."

John, what doctors know about fasting has nothing to do with why doctors don't generally recommend fasting for AS. Fasting is not a currently accepted medical treatment for AS.
Please John, you imply that those who don't fast are accepting a crippling level of their disease. That's not fair. It is your own idiosyncratic belief.

Fasting is not a safe thing for many people. This website bills itself as a great source of information. Please put a disclaimer on this.

Would you kindly put the disclaimer on the bottom of your post?

Wow that David Blaine fast is pretty impressive. Sounds like you have to be pretty careful when ending a long fast though to avoid re-feeding syndrome.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/34118.php
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/4516.php

Its not surprising that he can do such a long fast when he can do magic like this though ...

There is a disclaimer at the first page of this site:
*Medical Disclaimer*:

KickAS and its contributors are not legally liable for the content, information or opinions expressed herein.
Nothing communicated in any KickAS.org discussion forum should be construed as medical advice, regardless of the source.
Knowledge shared at KickAS.org is of a personal and not professional nature. Points of interest gained from this site should be discussed with your physician or specialist before making any change to your course of treatment.
In pregnancy, a low carbohydrate diet is potentially harmful to fetal development. Everyone needs a diet that meets their nutritional needs. If in doubt consult a qualified dietician.

Just my opinion,but before anyone takes on a fast,they should do research on their own.They should know that John is not their doctor and it is their responsibility to wisely undertake any treatment told to them by anyone on here...Just my opinion.
That would be a lot for him to have to attach to EVERY post!!
We should all have to do that then when we advocate what works for us.
How annoying would that be?

I personally believe fasting does help and reduce inflammation,I think it would even cure me if I could do it long enough! However,before I tried it,I read a lot on it...I didn't just do it 'cause someone told me to.

I like antibiotics,but they can be dangerous.Should I have to put a disclaimer on EVERY post I tell people they help me in?No.

TNF blockers are dangerous,same thing...should people have to put that on every post proclaiming how great they are?

The diet has given me sky high cholesterol...dangerous...should everyone advocating high fat diet put a disclaimer on their NSD posts?

I think is our own responsibility to read advice and use it wisely.

Bleecker,

Again, please read John's post more carefully. I think a little less nit-picking over words is in order here. But two can play that game....

Notice he said: "This is for those who are interested; a re-posting from a few years ago and it is still relevant. Fasting takes down the worst flare for me every single time."

So he specified that is is something that works FOR HIM and he posted it for those interested in considering fasting....not to say EVERYONE should do it. And if you're not interested then this post doesn't apply to you so don't worry about it.





Ummm....yeah, John was simply stating his opions based on his experience. He wasn't saying it was accepted in biology and he shouldn't have to.



Did you not read what John said?

"And I do not know whether fasting is healthy for everyone; certainly there are some few who might be harmed by such a measure."

There is NOTHING wrong with someone posting about or suggesting a treatment method that has helped them even if it isn't a "currently accepted medical treatment for AS". This is exactly the purpose of this site...to help each other cope and suggest ways to do so. If fasting or standing on your head is that thing that helps you then DO IT and by all means share your knowledge in the hope it may also relieve pain and suffering for someone else. It's up to the reader what they do with the info or experiences you choose to share here on KA.

All the best

Please, consider that the reader can be anybody and the implication in the post is that fasting for three weeks is a good thing for AS.

Any and all heath related sites carry a general disclaimer.

Fast long enough and you will die. Period.

3 weeks should not kill a healthy young person, but is likely to kill or to make seriously ill anybody else.

What is this gang up time?? Why do you need to come to John's defense and explain what he means. I think John can explain what he thinks all by his wonderful self. Having a disclaimer does not give someone permission to be self-rightous in how they post. If John has to keep explaining what he means then maybe John is not as eloquent as he deems himself to be. Maybe more qualifying statements would not give people the impression they were being talked down to. If something like fasting and NSD worked for EVERYONE (LIKE THE CAPS!!!!) 100% of the time and I didn't do it, ONLY THEN can you question my judgment if I didn't do it.
I will probably get booted off this site for daring to challenge the "ALMIGHTY ONE" but why should I care as far as John goes....as he said if you don't like it, there are other sites to go to for support.

Since this site claims to be so open minded, I guess that also includes John and the moderators ganging up on it's members.



Had Enough

I couldn't disagree more.

Personally, I think the contribution from someone who has had medical training and years of actual experience treating patients is a refreshing and vital change that has been long overdue.

The problem is that John isn't simply offering or suggesting advice. It is filled with insults and comes across to those who may dare to disagree as an attempt to bully them into acquiescence. For someone in a vulnerable state of mind - his posts and his bizarre opinions could be dangerous.

The fact that it doesn't stop there but is echoed by his disciples makes it worse. Edgar Cayce is often listed in his bibliographies as a source of medical knowledge. Were you aware that Edgar Cayce lists amongst his amazing accomplishments, the ability to channel spirits from long-dead Atlanteans?


I dared to speak-up in another thread. I did this because the site I loved so much was drowning in diet-related content. I also did it because I find something troubling about the fierce determination of John and his "acolytes" and their attempt to badger everyone else into adopting their own personal beliefs.

Not only did Dragonslayer use his power as a site moderator to edit my post to remove any references to Dr. Ebringer that he didn't like but I was also accused of picking fights and damaging this site. So I tried to be a "good boy" and kept silent.

That makes me sick to my stomach. No one has the right to try and make me feel as though my opinion is worthless and seeing the way another moderator would come to John's rescue and treat a new member - one who actually happens to have medical training - with such condescending disrespect makes me ashamed to have told so many people about how wonderful this place is.

What is actually damaging this site is this campaign of forcing a single belief down the throats of everyone here. A campaign driven by someone who has gathered a group of followers who defend him with vitriolic passion. Followers he refers to as "acolytes - every one of whom is an avatar."

John has absolutely no right to offer medical opinions to anyone. He and every other person have the right to believe whatever they choose and sing it from the rooftops if they wish to do so. When you begin to systematically bully anyone who disagrees with you, it enters the realm of thought control and coercion.

Everything I have written today is true to my understanding and things that I have been struggling with for quite some time. I held my tongue out of respect to John as he has been a very long-standing member of this site. I am not the first to challenge the cult of John, there have been many before me but every single one of them has either been bullied into silence or removed. I fully expect this message to be edited extensively if it even appears at all but will provide a copy to all of those I have contact with outside of this site if asked.

When people come to this site and find Dragonslayer's posts on Dr. Ebringer's diet, which work it's way into every single thread or discussion in here despite the fact that there is a diet-specific forum for it, this place will have lost something special and unique. When they see other moderators openly attacking a member who also happens to have been a medical doctor they are going to remember that and tell others. KickAS is becoming something very different than it was just a short while ago.

Unless the moderators reign in this bullying, pack-attack behaviour, this site will become a Dr. Ebringer fan site. Censorship and the attempt to silence the voice of dissent are the tools of fascism.

I am not afraid to stand and be counted.

(I just noticed that at least three members have indicated an interest in walking away from this site as a result of this behaviour - this was while I was writing mind you. It's worse than I imagined)

Umm...is the no starch thing the viewpoint here? Is that why the side bar contains so much about it?

I didn't know. Maybe that's why so few of the "7000 members" post. We become members without knowing and then we find out.
Please be upfront about this.

I wasn't ganging up or defending anyone.I know John can speak for himself.
I am simply sharing my opinion and saying if he has to put a disclaimer on his fasting recommendations,maybe EVERYONE should have to for all their potentially dangerous treatments!!!!
Everyone here is soooooooooo touchy!!!