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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 955
Superior_AS_Kicker
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OP
Superior_AS_Kicker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 955 |
Hi, This new research from Denmark has just popped up on the radar today... would love to track down the full article. For T cells to detect and kill foreign pathogens such as clumps of bacteria or viruses, the cells must first be 'triggered' into action and 'transform' from inactive and harmless immune cells into killer cells that are primed to seek out and destroy all traces of a foreign pathogen.
The researchers found that the T cells rely on vitamin D in order to activate and they would remain dormant, 'naïve' to the possibility of threat if vitamin D is lacking in the blood. The findings, continues Professor Geisler "could help us to combat infectious diseases and global epidemics. They will be of particular use when developing new vaccines, which work precisely on the basis of both training our immune systems to react and suppressing the body's natural defenses in situations where this is important – as is the case with organ transplants and autoimmune disease. I know many folk here have problems with low Vit D levels, which has me wondering... Is it the explosive multiplication of active T cells that causes the depletion that we see in folk with auto-immune problems?
"Traveler, there is no road, you make your path as you walk." - Antonio Machado
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,962
Presidential_AS_Kicker
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Presidential_AS_Kicker
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,962 |
I'm helping looking for the full article. Google returns many hits as seen here. Thanks for the link. take care, James
HLA-B27+, JRA diagnosis in 1981, re-diagnosed as AS in 1988. Also iritis, colitis, and psoriasis. NSD + low carb helps me. My health makes it hard for me to post in a timely way.
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,962
Presidential_AS_Kicker
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Presidential_AS_Kicker
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,962 |
The discovery, the scientists believe, provides much needed information about the immune system and will help them regulate the immune response. This is important not only in fighting disease but also in dealing with anti-immune reactions of the body and the rejection of transplanted organs. Active T cells multiply at an explosive rate and can create an inflammatory environment with serious consequences for the body. After organ transplants, e.g. T cells can attack the donor organ as a "foreign invader". In autoimmune disease, hypersensitive T cells mistake fragments of the body's own cells for foreign pathogens, leading to the body launching an attack upon itself.
The research team was also able to track the biochemical sequence of the transformation of an inactive T cell to an active cell, and thus would be able to intervene at several points to modulate the immune response. Inactive or 'naïve' T cells crucially contain neither the vitamin D receptor nor a specific molecule (PLC-gamma1) that would enable the cell to deliver an antigen specific response. I'm not sure what the article is trying to say. Are they saying that taking vitamin D is bad, or good, for someone with an autoimmune disease?
Last edited by JamesB; 03/08/10 01:00 PM.
HLA-B27+, JRA diagnosis in 1981, re-diagnosed as AS in 1988. Also iritis, colitis, and psoriasis. NSD + low carb helps me. My health makes it hard for me to post in a timely way.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 843
Ninja_AS_Kicker
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Ninja_AS_Kicker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 843 |
I think this is what you are looking for; science daily March 7 2010 We've had discussions before about this and I came down strongly on one side. I'm a little turned off by the Marshall Protocol myself, but there is some good conflicting evidence on both sides... [oops, sorry James, you found it... ]
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,962
Presidential_AS_Kicker
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Presidential_AS_Kicker
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,962 |
Hi CC,
I didn't find the original article yet, I only linked some google results.
I read the entire link that Kurumi posted several times, and I still cant figure out if they are saying vitamin D would be beneficial to inflammatory disease (or not). It is clear to me that they said it is good for resisting infections... but not about auto-immune disease.
Take care,
James
Last edited by JamesB; 03/08/10 01:43 PM.
HLA-B27+, JRA diagnosis in 1981, re-diagnosed as AS in 1988. Also iritis, colitis, and psoriasis. NSD + low carb helps me. My health makes it hard for me to post in a timely way.
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 955
Superior_AS_Kicker
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OP
Superior_AS_Kicker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 955 |
Well, it will be published in full here, but to see it you have to either subscribe to the journal or purchase the article for $32... ouch! I've been trying to get my head around this too... I haven't read much else about Vit D deficiency though as it hasn't been a problem for me, but I am aware that it does seem to go hand in hand with auto-immune disorders and have wondered why. Is it deficiency causing problems to start with, or the disease causing deficiency with an over response presumably depleting reserves that then leads to other problems, or maybe a combination of both...? I read somewhere else today while surfing that Vit D affects more than 200 genes... or maybe it was 2000? Anyway, it has a big role in bone health so an important factor in AS aside from the immune system aspect, and probably lots more we aren't aware of. I'd also like to add here that I'm not so familiar with the Roadback Foundation stuff either, so don't really know much about the debate going on from that aspect. But, this research shows that Vit D is critical for the immune system to mount a defence against infection, or what the body perceives to be a foreign pathogen. So, no response would make us sitting ducks for any passing pathogenic bacteria or virus... In autoimmune disease, hypersensitive T cells mistake fragments of the body's own cells for foreign pathogens, leading to the body launching an attack upon itself. Bolded bits added by me.... I guess the million dollar question is what is causing the hypersensitivity? And, I know there is lots of research going on there, another aspect that I want to understand better. Sorry, rambling a bit. Ok, so, I have just found these links at the Vit D council webpage... I need to do some more reading to understand this a bit better. But, this might help understand the role of Vit D and its pathways, and they've even got papers linked that are specific to AS research as well as to auto-immune disorders. This should keep us busy....  And hopefully this Danish study will keep more researchers busy too, and result in increased understanding and some new approaches in managing auto-immune conditions!
"Traveler, there is no road, you make your path as you walk." - Antonio Machado
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,962
Presidential_AS_Kicker
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Presidential_AS_Kicker
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,962 |
Hi CC and Kurumi, I haven't been following the Marshall Protocol or Roadback Foundation stuff either. For me it would be risky to go without supplementing in D because I can't afford anymore bone loss, plus it could cause my calcium tablets to not be able to absorb properly if I get too low in D. I think my vitamin D levels last time were 14, and I'm osteoporotic. 37.5 = Generally considered adequate for bone and overall health in healthy individuals." ">500 = Considered potentially toxic." http://dietary-supplements.info.nih.gov/factsheets/vitamind.aspIf people can go into the hundreds for D levels without toxicity, then I was pretty far off in my D intake when I was last tested. Take care, James
Last edited by JamesB; 03/08/10 06:23 PM.
HLA-B27+, JRA diagnosis in 1981, re-diagnosed as AS in 1988. Also iritis, colitis, and psoriasis. NSD + low carb helps me. My health makes it hard for me to post in a timely way.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2
New_Member
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New_Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2 |
I am confused, if AS causes bone fusion then why would we want to take calcium? Wouldn't that promote fusion? Please excuse my ignorance, I have only been diagnosed the last 2 years and do not fully understand this disease yet and only now doing more research on it.
I am also curious about the Vit. D. My primary doctor has me taken 1,000 units a day due to a defiency and to help reduce inflammation. I never really thought of it, but why take it to boost my immune system to and then take meds to suppress it?
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,962
Presidential_AS_Kicker
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Presidential_AS_Kicker
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,962 |
Hi Maddog, Sorry to confuse you. I take calcium, magnesium, and vitamin D for osteoporosis, because i have trouble taking osteoporosis meds. I have AS too, and I'm already fused, but the fusing led to Osteoporosis, because it drew the minerals out of my bones, and I'm low on magnesium and vitamin D, so it's my job to try to put all it back where it belongs (so to speak). I don't know how it works, but from what I have heard, calcium, if taken properly and not excessively, is supposed to get placed into the bones, not into the calcification from the fusing. My best guess for that would be because bones contain the other minerals to draw the calcium into them, but the calcification doesn't. Don't take my word for it though, I'm just guessing at this point. I'm also doing this by the orders of my doctors too. Welcome to kickas.org by the way.  Take care, James
Last edited by JamesB; 03/08/10 07:20 PM.
HLA-B27+, JRA diagnosis in 1981, re-diagnosed as AS in 1988. Also iritis, colitis, and psoriasis. NSD + low carb helps me. My health makes it hard for me to post in a timely way.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 21,346 Likes: 2
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin
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Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 21,346 Likes: 2 |
interesting food for thought, thanks!
sue
Spondyloarthropathy, HLAB27 negative
Humira (still methylprednisone for flares, just not as often. Aleve if needed, rarely.)
LDN/zanaflex/flector patches over SI/ice
vits C, D. probiotics. hyaluronic acid. CoQ, Mg, Ca, K.
chiro
walk, bike
no dairy (casein sensitivity), limited eggs, limited yeast (bread)
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