Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion #1 AS Web Support Group muscle spasms? trigger points? what to do?

Oh Sue, I'm so sorry to hear about the latest.... sounds like everyone has given just about all the advice I can think of. I just wanted to send lots of (non spasming) hugs your way. I'll be curious to hear what fixes it... hopefully something quickly though. It sounds awful.

Hi Sue,

I have the same problem with trigger points. Sometimes can't sleep on the front, the back, or the sides. What's SI, BTW? I'm new here. Sorry you are going through this.

You may already know all this, but hat's helped me is the Trigger Point Therapy Workbook by Clair Davies. He stresses that you have to know the right way to work a trigger point or you can just make it worse. He gives the whole scoop in the book and he's a charming writer. I also used The Trigger Point Therapy for Myofascial Pain book by Donna Finando when I see the acupuncturists because it tells meridians and acupuncture points associated with the trigger point. I use a ball on the wall or my thera-cane to work on the points. But it can be really difficult if they are really out of control

The Fibromylagia and Chronic Myofascial Pain book by Devin Starlanyl talks in depth about perpetuating factors. Get them under control helps, but some are difficult or impossible to get under control.

Do you think this is part of AS?

thanks freddie,

since this is a major avenue that i haven't tried, i will try it.
thanks for your detailed advice and the way you delivered it.
you did not come on too strongly and i greatly appreciate the detail.
when we find something that works, we want to share it with others.

so thank you for taking the time and energy to post this,

i did start googling acupuncturists in my town,
and my PM you with some websites if you don't mind.
saw a few people. wondering if one fits the criteria that you suggested?
yes, will PM you, if that's ok.

thanks megan and everyone,

i now think, with everyone's ideas, and then doing some googling based on various ideas that the root to the problem is the reactivated trigger points. had managed to keep them fairly latent for a long long time, but have recently lost the battle for the time being.

not sure why i can't press them out, don't think its that we are doing it wrong, no matter what the pressure, has always set them off, same for massage, even light massage.

when i iced the lower trap trigger point in my lower mid back, my neck stopped spasming. so think i've hit on the source.

ultrasound and ice will help, but when laying each night is difficult and they are so stressed that just about everything flares them, well, very hard to get under control.

and now understand what i did to my glute medius a month ago, stretching activated a latant trigger point, just like how things started in my upper back 11 years ago.

what i really truly need is for my physiatrists to aggressively start injecting them, like my physiatrist in virginia would do for me, that is nothing short of miraculous for me, but they are more conservative up here or too busy to see me right away (6 weeks wait for the one doctor who does them for me but is afraid to do anything in the upper back, afraid of a pneumothorax; and the other doctor that did two last week wants me in PT for a month before she does more, and her receptionist said they don't like to do more than 6 a year; hoping that means 6 injections to the same TP and not 6 total. too bad that these doctors don't know my history of what does and doesn't work or don't seem to care, meaning they have to see it for themselves rather than listening to the patient.) i so just want to inject them myself, its just a dry needle that breaks them up. sterilize the site and then inject. don't worry, i won't do it myself, but i so want to. maybe acupuncture will accomplish the same thing? maybe they actually puncture trigger points as well.

anyway, at least i now know what is the main problem, active trigger points that i need to either get latent again or eliminate with injections. and once they are latent, the muscle spasms will stop, as when sufficiently iced, the muscle spasms stop.

funny, i know what to do in theory, but so hard to put into practice when everything sets them off.

kind of like when a tendon becomes so inflamed that every little movement inflames it more.

once the vicious cycle sets in, very hard to break, but trying.

and its thanks to all of you that i got to this point of understanding.
guess its not really new, just when it started 11 years ago, i could sleep on my side, so sleeping didn't irritate them, sleeping actually gave them some respite, but now, sleeping is a challenge, that's the big difference; same problem, new challenges. but i also have more tools at my disposal this time, and a lot more moral support from people who really understand,

so thank you,

hi faithberry, i have all those books too, mostly to know where the TPs are, the names of the muscles, so easier to keep track of then just having a mental map of locations, and to understand the referred pain patterns better.

the PTs and physiatrists have never completely understood why pressing and massage make mine worse rather than better, and don't think its the doing it wrong, too hard, too soft, etc, any pressing or massage is bad.

but have found a few things that help them, just a challenge because more hurts than helps, but working on it.

but maybe acupuncture is still something to try.

don't know if its part of my arthritis or not? a lot of people here seem to have the muscle spasms, maybe they have trigger points as well?
did read somewhere that joint / arthritis problems can be a precipitating factor, so, who knows. like with other things, just want to make them go away.

definitely not fibromyalgia for me. was reading yesterday how though a lot of people with fibro have trigger points, they also have pain throughout all their muscles while TPs are very localized. so definitely TPs and myofacial pain, and definitely not fibro, for me anyway. learned the difference a long time ago from a lot of doctors who ruled in myofacial pain and ruled out fibro along the way.

good luck to you too with your TPs,

Dow,

ok, will just roll downhill then
get the blender going
nice to daydream

very good on the song lyrics, and yes, "why worry", i do like that one even better.

CC, question for you:

i put a flector patch over the left side trigger points. they do feel a bit better, but i also laid on ice overnight, so maybe that's it.

have you found that the flector patches work on the trigger points? on the spasming muscles? other?

thanks,

Since you ask...

I currently take my magnesium in powdered citrate form. I take anywhere from 600mg - 900mg supplemental per day. I also take pretty hefty doses of oral Vitamin C. The only reason I point that out is that, for some individuals, that could be a recipe for disaster necessitating a bathroom in quite hurry. Believe it or not, this combo does not play havoc with my GI system (and I'm sans large intestine). Should you delve into the magnesium, start slow and gradually build the dose. I always, seemingly no matter what I'm putting into my body, increase the dose at a arbitrary three days unless a doctor is instructing me to do otherwise.

I've been on the citrate, but my new doctor is switching me over to a potassium - magnesium aspartate supplement. I didn't ask why, but will find out one of these days.

Citrate is a good, absorbable form. Other desirable forms are aspartate, malate, glycinate, and orotate. There may be others but those are the ones that I recall.

Whatever you do, especially if you find yourself with GI issues, start slow and build the dosage gradually.

Like others mention, heat is a winner for me too.

No problem Sue. Feel free to PM me the links, and I'll take a looksee. I'm always apprehensive when I start working with someone new, and it normally takes a few visits to determine whether or not they are just OK, or whether or not they are amazing. There is a certain element of luck when finding the right practioner, but hopefully previous experiences can help us manufacture the luck we need.

At a minimum, hopefully it'll help relieve the spasming. Prior to my battle with spondy, I would get 1-2 back spasms a year. For the real severe ones that wouldn't loosen up through stretching, heat, and my usual bag o' tricks, I'd crawl into the acupuncturist office and would get incredible relief.

Best of luck!

Freddie