Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Leaky Gut, Intestinal Issues?

So here is my line of questioning:

Everyone talks about NSD to heal the gut, to heal a leaky gut, etc.

so does everyone have diarrhea and/or constipation before the diet
and then that gets better? do you have gastrointestinal pain and then that gets better? do you have the symptoms of IBS and then that gets better?

or did you have seemingly normal bowel movements (sorry, but i can't think of a more polite way of asking) all along, before and after the NSD?

i ask because i can't imagine that one could have such issues with the gut and not have these sorts of intestinal symptoms.

so if the answer is that you can have a leaky / sick gut, but perfectly normal bathroom habits, then that is one answer.

but if the answer is that if you have the sick gut, you have the bathroom issues, then what if you don't have bathroom issues in general?

sue

Sue,

was posted alot years back, european studies on SpondyA they found on colon scopes that 60% had sub clinical chron's like lesions.

20% of spA go on to get IBD about the same for IBD pateints getting SpondyA.

Leaky gut, being exasperated by NSAIDS ? According to an Italian study about 25% of IBD'ers suffer relaspe on the newer COX2 drugs.

Some repeats of studies did n;t find this as high, but I do n't think the repeated studies were in Europe, genetic backgrounds may be the issue there ?

When you think about it, one of the roles of the large bowel is a big fermenter using bugs to break down more complex carbohydrates, more you feed it the more busy the bugs get. With IBD they find that the bug cultures reveal a smaller diversity of bugs.

I have problems with starch, I do n;t need to do the iodine test.....just eat it wait 18-24 hours see what happens.....

Even a low starch diet esp if you cut out the white processed rubbish, white bread, cakes, dried cheap pasta and avoid pizza like the plague may well help. OI can't do the NSD for very long periods, and these days it does n't help like it did.

I do n't believe that everyone will respond to NSD/LSD, but if there is a reaction to certain foods then it makes sense to avoid them.

The link between gut trouble and AS is well known, if you check out enough medical literature the link between AS and inflammed guts is a common point.

Dave

i think what i was trying to ask is, if i don't seem to have any traditional intestinal symptoms (diarrhea, constipation, cramping, bloating, gas, intestinal pain, etc), could i still have a sick / leaky / unhealthy gut?

or put another way, if you have a sick / leaky / unhealthy gut, do you absolutely have some of those symptoms?

thanks,

sue

You can have gut problems with little or no symptoms. Just like Davo said, keep track of the foods that bother you. The NSD did not change my symptoms much so I kept a food journal. By keeping a journal you will find out over time what you can and can not eat.Sometimes you will find it is food combinations that set you off. Start by watching whites,sugars and stay away form ANY processed foods.

Sue,
Yes, you can have gut problems without symptoms. The study davo referred to found lesions in 60% of people with AS, including those not reporting symptoms of gut issues.

Carol Sinclair wrote the book "The IBS Low Starch Diet" because she cleared up her own severe IBS with a starch free diet. It was only later that she realized her joint pains had cleared up when the GI issues cleared up. She realized she had probably had AS, but her IBS was so severe it eclipsed the AS. Her quest to heal her gut and diarrhea/constipation ended up also healing her AS.

So, yes, some people's gut issues are definitely starch related.

Karen

Hi, sue:

Quote:

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o if the answer is that you can have a leaky / sick gut, but perfectly normal bathroom habits, then that is one answer.

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This is the right answer. When I first got AS nobody could have ever convinced me that it was due to intestinal issues--only much later, after NSAIDs made these much worse (and my AS much worse, too), did I realize there was a connection.

The majority of people with compromised gut never know it, but this will cause AS--it is the only difference in two people with the same susceptibility (HLA B2705) where one develops AS and the other does not; the one who developed this disease has increased gut permeability. Initially, that permeability can be from something insidious (like candidiasis) or obvious (like giardiasis or salmonellosis), but once established the consumption of starches will keep the lesions active because of the mechanism behind AS; the intestinal epithelium is a collagen affected by AS--and NSAIDs, too.

Regards,
John

I would agree that you do not need IBS, constipation or other intestinal issues to have a leaky gut.

this is all good to know since I've never had intestinal issues. things have moved much slower since breaking out with AS and I cannot get anything to make things go quicker... most people cramp with this one tea while steeping it for 3 minutes... I can steep for 10 and it won't affect me! My lower abdomen always hurts and that was explained as possible endometreosis.

so who knows anymore... I'm just an enigma! But I've been obcessed this past year to heal my gut & didn't even know it needed healing!!

Hi Sue, the reason i keep clammering about GIT issues are firstly that the medicos offer nothing for the obvious connections between arthralgia and food (or even the gut) and secondly, people with AS can have zero symptoms of obvious gut problems. However, ALL sufferers will have had bad gastric events or practices.
I suffered damage from numerous gastro attacks when i was young and travelling as well as appendicitis and enough other infections for bugs to get into my damaged gut.
Luckily my damage is all micro-lesions and no really bad area of wall damage.
Stopping alcohol and NSAIDs left me ripe for a NSD to be very effective immediately.

There were a string of events that i had to research work out, but when i started cleansing and killing Kp et al, i became very susceptible to starch and "allergic" reactions. My reasoning was that the Kp colonies with their mucousy secretions were covering most of the lesions themselves. When these colonies died and the lesions were cleaned by apple cider vinegar and fasting, the holes were exposed...
This meant food particles and big molecules, not meant to be in the blood, now had access and i suffered sensitivity to mangos, avocados, almonds - among others. I concentrated fully on reparation via supplements, diet and processes and got past that stage by sticking to a very simple diet for months.
It was worth it, i can eat whatever i want. If i regress, then i go strict for a while, then slacken off to an easier routine - i no longer tell friends at dinner i cannot eat this and that or that, i just say as long as it is not all potato or all pasta then i am fine. Rice please and avoid wheat products.

Wheat, rye (glutens), dairy (caseines), alcohol, NSAIDs are the total exclusions because they continue to damage the gut...
If you want to define poison, try a wheat thickened dairy - like corn-starch custard or white sauce and see what a flare is.
But no, i cannot exclude alcohol totally, beer and wine are my faves and i will only drink spirits with lots of fruit juice - daquari style.

If you doubt your damage and have a caring medico there is a test - the two sugars test where the urine is tested for level of a digestible sugar and compared to a non-digestible sugar. If the non-digestible one is there at all it is because it LEAKED through the GUT - because of LGS.
I decided against the test as i have total faith in my convictions and confirmation of much of the stuff that John has conveyed and for which i thank him.

So, there is absolutely no need to have diarrhoea or flatulance or cramps to have SI pain, all you need are a few pin-pricks in your intestines.

No IBS type symptoms for my husband Jon.