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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 325
Fourth_Degree_AS_Kicker
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OP
Fourth_Degree_AS_Kicker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 325 |
Quote:
That said, your statement that fats and oils are the same thing concerns me. They are not. Certainly, fats liquify, but oils do not solidify (or rather, they shouldn't).
Inanna's post from another thread
Hi Inanna,
Fats and Oils both belong to a class of biological substances called lipids. Lipids don't dissolve in water.
Fats are solid at room temperature.
Oils are liquid at room temperature.
Whether they are liquid or solid, they are all lipids, and is that sense Fats and Oils are the same thing.
Cocunut Oil, which I believe is a very healthy oil to use, is solid at room temperature, should really be called Cocunut Fat, according to convention. It is saturated with Hydrogen and thus is very stable, making it less apt to go rancid - as Olive Oil will if is exposed to heat or light. Good olive oil is kept in dark bottles, preferrably in the refrigerator.
The corn and soy lobby worked hard to give coconut oil a bad name when they wanted to promote new fangled vegetable oils. All the business about polyunsaturated and monosaturated oils being healthy is misleading. It does not tell the whole story. It is the same industry that told you margarine was heart smart, 30 years ago.
I tend to think too much of any fat or oil is bad. And that vegetable oils that have been de-oderized and processed at high temperatures have harmful molecular fragments that are never discussed.
When an oil is de-oderized, you can no longer tell if it has gone rancid.
Saturated fats, like lard and coconut oil are good "keepers" - they don't spoil easily.
I tend to believe that to much of any lipid in the diet is not good.
Fats and Oils are a complex subject. I no longer gobble up mayo made with canola oil - which is a trade name for rapeseed oil. Canola is a trade name for Canadian Oil. I am leary of it.
I now use almost only Butter, Coconut Oil, and Olive Oil. I don't heat the olive oil at too high of a temperature. It decomposes easliy, and forms harmful molecular fragments.
When I came down with AS symptoms at age of 43, I was on a high fat diet, and taking fish oils supplements. I conclude, too much of any lipid is a bad thing, and one should avoid lipids that have a tendency to go rancid.
I have cut the fat in my diet way back from an extreme that now looking back, was sickening. I now believe in a plant based diet where animal fats (e.g. meat and dairy) are used as a condiment - as the way to health.
Cutting back on meat and dairy has helped my significantly. Maybe I my symtoms are more like DISH than AS. And anyone who is sero-negative with a late onset should consider if diet and lifestyle could be a factor.
And I don't doubt most americans need more omega 3 oil in their diet. But if you are already getting lots of lipids through diet, does it make sense to take lipid (Fish Oil supplements.) I have to wonder. It is probably best to make sure the lipids provided by food are the right kind (non-rancid, non-fragmented, with adequate omega 3) - and not go overboard on lipids. I wish I knew the real deal as I am sure there is a lot of misinformation promulgated by vendors of vegetable oils.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 18,187 Likes: 7
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin
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Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 18,187 Likes: 7 |
Hey there, I appreciate the point you are making; however, you cannot tell me that two salmon oil pills, a tablespoon of flaxseed oil, or a salad tossed in olive oil and balsalmic vinegar will have the same effect on your arteries and such that a breakfast of bacon, eggs fried in the bacon fat and toast with butter and strawberry jam does. As yummy as that breakfast might be.
I am looking into the immune-suppressing claim, but other than that the question of Omega-3/6 oils is pretty cut and dried. These oils have proven health benefits that fats simply do not. In fact, I have yet to hear of any health benefit provided by fat/lard.
Your claim that there is no difference is, quite simply, incorrect ... or at the very least, inaccurate.
There is a reason that the Mediteranean diet leaves people healthier than the North American diet. High ratio of olive oil to fat, low ratio of red meats to seafoods. Very simplisticly put, I realize, but makes the point.
Many hugs,
Kat
A life lived in fear is a life half lived.
"Strictly Ballroom"
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 325
Fourth_Degree_AS_Kicker
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OP
Fourth_Degree_AS_Kicker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 325 |
Hi Inanna,
I maintain that fats and oils belong to the same class of compounds called lipids, which do not dissolve in water. Lipid molecules have many possible structures. It is these differences in structures that give different lipids different characteristics, like whether or not it is liquid or solid at room temperature.
Quote:
In fact, I have yet to hear of any health benefit provided by fat/lard.
You certainly don't want to eat too much fat or lard, but it happens to be very nutrituous, a storehouse of calories. And if you were starving, or working a hard in a cold climate, you would crave fatty food. Don't eskimos eat whale blubber?
We get way more fat than we need, in Western Society maybe.
Yet fat is still a biological requirement in the diet, I am fairly certain this is true.
Be wary of new fangled vegetable oils that have been processed at a high temperature. Heat and light easily damages oils that are not fully saturated with hydrogen.
Saturated fats and oils are very stable, and thus very good keepers.
Whatever you do, don't get the idea that since there are "healthy Oils" out there, that the more the better. One must limit the amount of lipid in their diet, and endeavor get the right type of lipids.
Grass fed livestock have more omega 3 configuration in their fat.
Grain promotes Omega 6 configuration in the fat.
So I have read.
Last edited by layer3guy; 11/05/07 05:33 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 255
Third_Degree_AS_Kicker
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Third_Degree_AS_Kicker
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 255 |
Depends on your room temperature if your coconut oil is oil or fat.  It seems to be around 76'. This time of the year my CO is fat, in the summer it stays liquid.
Many fats will actually raise your good cholesterol. Omega-3 fats seem to have lots of anti-inflammatory properties and, in fact, are an essential fat. We can't produce them ourselves, we have to get them from food we eat. It has been linked to lowering triglycerides (fats created from carbohydrates (mostly)), improving AS symptoms, decreasing depression and so on.
Many vitamins are fat soluable, meaning you must ingest them with fat in order to absorb them. So eating a salad without any fat is a waste of good nutrition. You'll absorb a lot more nutrients if you pour on a full-fat dressing, or eat the salad with nuts, than if you just squeeze lemon juice on it.
Fat has been unfairly demonized in the last 20 years, to the detriment of our health, IMHO.
Last edited by Panama; 11/05/07 06:30 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,934
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,934 |
Interesting article: The Skinny on Fats
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 325
Fourth_Degree_AS_Kicker
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OP
Fourth_Degree_AS_Kicker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 325 |
Hey Kiwi,
Great article. I don't think the guy is telling us to eat lots of fat, but is making the point that we need it in our diet, which we do. This is one of the articles I read that made me decide to use only butter, coconut oil, and olive oil. I avoid vegetable oils.
I got sick by having too much fat and oil in my diet, I believe. I also had lots of protein, and that probably didn't help either. But now that I am on a plant based diet, I still eat some meat every day. But I have cut back. Maybe I am like a "Jeffersonian Vegetarian" - were meat is used as a condiment, and not the main source.
Collard greens are downright medicinal. Add some carrots and whole grain rice with gravy from free range beef - and it could be the cure. Just make sure you get your veges, that's important, I think.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 94
Apprentice_AS_Kicker
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Apprentice_AS_Kicker
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 94 |
hey layerguy?
do you have any idea how I can just ignore a poster?
fishy
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,552 Likes: 10
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,552 Likes: 10 |
Quote:
do you have any idea how I can just ignore a poster?
I will attempt to be as diplomatic as possible with my reply.
Two options:
1. You could simply stop reading (ignore) the users posts.
2. If option #1 proves is not amenable, there is an option to actually ignore all posts of a user via your user preferences.
a. Click on the username of the individual, could be from a post he/she made (i.e. if you want to ignore my posts click on "Dotyisle" somewhere).
b. A profile for the user will appear (i.e "Profile for Dotyisle)
C. At bottom of profile are a list of icons, one states "Ignore this User", click on this icon.
Going forward, all posts from the user will appear, but there will be no verbage within the post. It will simply state, "you are ignoring this member" or something along that line.
Hope this helps you.
I tried to be informative for all users here so they may benefit from your question. However, I would like to add (and this is where my diplomacy will end), I found your post very disrespectful and in poor taste.  I made my "editorial comments" here public as well since you opted to ask your question publicly and to publicly ask an individual whom I assume you want to ignore.) It is much more respectful to PM the user to ask such a question or to contact an Admin or Mod if you need answers to these type questions. It is inflammatory and against the KickAS.org Rules and Regulations for a member to post this type of response within an active thread.
Thanks for your understanding.
Tim
Last edited by Moonbees; 11/06/07 06:22 AM.
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