Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion #1 AS Web Support Group If the NSD does not work for you.....

Hello,

I have a theory, or idea, that I would like to share with anyone who may benefit from my experience. I have almost completely cured my AS symptoms by taking magnesium citrate dissovled in hot water and drinking it like tea. I felt an immediate reduction in pain, and my improvement has continued. I can now jog a mile in 10.5 minutes. I can turn my neck while driving, although it is not as flexible as it once was, before the onset of "AS" symptoms at the age of 43. I can tie my shoes now, and put on socks, fairly easily. I can almost pick stuff off the ground like a normal person. One year ago, I was seriously considering applying for Federal Disability.

My experience with Magnesium Citrate

I certainly believe that a natural cure, is better than pharmacuetical treatment, and I would have been compelled to try the NSD, except for one thing. Prior to my onset, I was on a diet for years where I purposely and intentionally ate lot of fatty protein and shunned rice, potatoes, bread, cereal, and pasta. Which may not have been so bad but I also ate occassional sweets and drank 1/2 gallon of coffee daily . I also drank alcohol to the point of elevation several nights each week. But mainly the coffee I believe caused some type of intestinal malfunction, where I was not absorbing magnesium, and other vitamins and minerals as well. Also, working in an office cubicle, and being sedentary did not help things. AS symptoms often start after long periods of immobility.

Now consider that lots of AS victims also suffer from intestinal disorders. One can easily find information sources that state Crohn's disease will cause a magneisum deficiency.

Crohn's disease can cause a magnesium deficiency

So there are different ways that a person can become deficient in magnesium, and other nutrients.

Whether it is from Crohn's disease, extreme coffee consumption, the over growth of certain gut bacteria, or whatever - low absorbtion of magnesium can cause AS symptoms. That is what I believe.

I am now on my way to the gym, after some Oat Bran pancakes topped with berries and bananas. Not to long ago my typical breakfast was sausage and eggs with no toast or potatoes. So I was kind of already on a NSD, but I still came down with AS symptoms.

I have cut way back on protein and fat. I eat lots of fruit and vegetables, and I have cut down on coffee. I also supplement with Magnesium Citrate.

And I am ever so happy that I did not start down the pharmacuetical path that my Rhuematologist was so eager for me to take.

Hi Layer3Guy,
I am in the middle of getting my bloodwork results back, as some of them were from out of state. So far, my doc finds that a Vitamin D deficiency is a big problem for me, but I don't (we don't) know where I stand with magnesium yet. This is one of the many questions I have to ask him when I see him again. Btw, have you seen what has been said about the relationship between caffeine and magnesium? Google search: caffeine magnesium, then caffeine Osteoporosis. I'm glad I gave up the caffeine as far back as 8 years ago. I drink pop (caffeine free), but it's cut down to about a half glass per day. I know phosphorus is bad, but I need something with those tiny bubbles, because that helps my stomach feel better. :-)

I'm glad the magnesium is still working for you.

Take care,
James.

JamesB

Please read this link if you are going to be tested for a magnesium deficiency.

Serum test for magnesium is misleading

You may find the above link interesting.

- Ben

Thanks for posting this 3 layer guy.
Very interesting.
I'm not much for supplements but I'll make a concerted effort to increase my magnesium intake in foods.

Maggie

Found this for anyone interested.

Magnesium is the fourth most abundant mineral in the body and is essential to good health. Approximately 50% of total body magnesium is found in bone. The other half is found predominantly inside cells of body tissues and organs. Only 1% of magnesium is found in blood, but the body works very hard to keep blood levels of magnesium constant.

Magnesium is needed for more than 300 biochemical reactions in the body. It helps maintain normal muscle and nerve function, keeps heart rhythm steady, supports a healthy immune system, and keeps bones strong. Magnesium also helps regulate blood sugar levels, promotes normal blood pressure, and is known to be involved in energy metabolism and protein synthesis. There is an increased interest in the role of magnesium in preventing and managing disorders such as hypertension, cardiovascular disease, and diabetes. Dietary magnesium is absorbed in the small intestines. Magnesium is excreted through the kidneys

Early signs of magnesium deficiency include loss of appetite, nausea, vomiting, fatigue, and weakness. As magnesium deficiency worsens, numbness, tingling, muscle contractions and cramps, seizures, personality changes, abnormal heart rhythms, and coronary spasms can occur [1,3-4]. Severe magnesium deficiency can result in low levels of calcium in the blood (hypocalcemia). Magnesium deficiency is also associated with low levels of potassium in the blood (hypokalemia)

Here's a link if interested.

http://dietary-supplements.info.nih.gov/factsheets/magnesium.asp


Maggie

Hi, layer3guy:

I am not certain that suggesting that the NSD 'does not work for you' is the proper way to word the title of your post. I don't think that you have proven that you are only treating AS, instead of either several sequelae from AS or another condition in addition to AS.

There are some cases where the NSD has seemed to not work very well, but these were complicated by individualistic factors, such as ReA and more severe LGS and even self-treating with magnesium supplements, which I heartily agree should be done almost universally, is not really identifying or addressing the underlying cause.

I do not know what would possess any person to "kind" of be on an NSD. There are some strict criteria for making this claim, such as iodine testing of everything that crosses the lips. Foods that are high in fats and proteins have been vilified by the medical community and Kelloggs (&c) agribusiness interests to the extent that everyone knows these are bad for us:

Quote:

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So I was kind of already on a NSD, but I still came down with AS symptoms

---

In most cases of active AS, it does not take very much starch at all to trigger a serious AS episode. Even the starch from unripened fruits can cause a flare that can last up to 10 days. The cycle of triggering something within a few hours that will remain for 10 days is another source of confusion for people, who want to 'reward' themselves for putting in a tough, but successful NSD week.

Results on the NSD can be rather subjective, unless a person is an indicator (ESR tracks disease activity), and everyone would LOVE to claim that 'the NSD did not work for me.' In truth, the chances the NSD alone will not work for you are extremely low--closer to 1 in 30--and when it patently does not work, there is usually something else really going on.

I am glad that you have had success, and appreciate your sharing, but I hope that you will consider that AS is a collection of over 200 disease conditions, and treating the symptoms of several of these will help only to a limited extent.

We are not off the hook even if magnesium helps or vitD from sunlight helps--both of these things are very good, but we need to attack the problem that actually causes AS--the germ that is the reason that the NSD works, and has been independently rediscovered so many times there is no accepting the null hypothesis (that diet has no effect upon AS).

I hope that you will have continued success with your supplementation regimen,
John

If I had followed the NSD diet strictly and properly it might have been all I needed to get the proper amount of vitamins and minerals.

I believe my "anti-oxidant" absorbtion problem was caused by drinking 1/2 gallon of coffee daily and having a diet that emaphasized protein and fat like crazy. I would recommend the NSD to anyone who did not already have adverse lifestyle factors, or anyone who had both intestinal issues and AS. And I would also be sure to mention my profound improvment once I began supplementing with magnesium citrate.

There may be "good fats" - but what I know believe is that too much of any fat, good or bad, is lethal.

I also read a lot about how the business about polyunsaturated and monosaturated oils being healthy is misleading information. Some say the real health issue is whether or not the vegetable oils are damaged (made rancid) during the manufacturing process. I now use mainly butter and coconut oil, and I use it in limited amounts. I use to load up things with maynoaisse because the kind I got had the "good fats." I now believe that is a mistake.

The study of fats and oils is a subject unto itself.

But hey, I would probably benefited greatly from the NSD. It's just that I had factors in my diet that were extreme.

I haven't had my coffee yet this morning. I grind my own beans. I am an addict. Yet I now limit myself to no more than a quart a day, and that is still way too much.

Be careful of too much magnesium in supplements. IN addition there can be drug interactions with magnesium, as with any OTC or supplement. Clipped from the referenced article below.

What is the health risk of too much magnesium?
Dietary magnesium does not pose a health risk, however pharmacologic doses of magnesium in supplements can promote adverse effects such as diarrhea and abdominal cramping. Risk of magnesium toxicity increases with kidney failure, when the kidney loses the ability to remove excess magnesium. Very large doses of magnesium-containing laxatives and antacids also have been associated with magnesium toxicity [25]. For example, a case of hypermagnesemia after unsupervised intake of aluminum magnesia oral suspension occurred after a 16 year old girl decided to take the antacid every two hours rather than four times per day, as prescribed. Three days later, she became unresponsive and demonstrated loss of deep tendon reflex [57]. Doctors were unable to determine her exact magnesium intake, but the young lady presented with blood levels of magnesium five times higher than normal [25]. Therefore, it is important for medical professionals to be aware of the use of any magnesium-containing laxatives or antacids. Signs of excess magnesium can be similar to magnesium deficiency and include changes in mental status, nausea, diarrhea, appetite loss, muscle weakness, difficulty breathing, extremely low blood pressure, and irregular heartbeat [5,57-60].

Source: HOW much to have

Hi drizzit,
Thanks for the link. This is why I choose to let my doctors handle the monitoring of and treatment of my vitamin and mineral deficiencies. This is tricky business, because too much of one thing can lead to other deficiencies or other health problems.

Under one doctor's advice, I have been taking Calcium with VitaminD (OTC), which I have just substituted with my new doctor's Vitamin D2 script. I didn't have to stop the calcium, according to the doctor, but I want to make sure that nothing interferes with what the new supplement was intended for. However in addition to food, I also take carnation instant breakfast (because I have absorption/indigestion problems), to help aid vitamin and mineral intake, rather than taking a complete multivitamin that doesn't agree with me. My doctor is ok with this, as long as it's just once a day, and as long as it's something that is not prescription strength.

In addition, I also take antacids which contain magnesium, which can eventually do more harm than good. I don't take them as a supplementation, but rather for the quick relief from the everyday GI pains. My doctor says I may have more than just Acid Reflux and Colitis, so he will be working with me on this soon. It sounds like he is going to have me see my Gastro doctor again, or refer me to a new one, which would be better in my opinion.

So thanks for the link... it is very important to be careful about these type of things. Everyone should be made aware of this.
James.

Recently I too went through a period where I felt that my AS completely went away, this as a result of doing -- absolutely nothing different. No offense to anyone, and I mean that seriously, I truly believe that without long-term, scientific research, anecdotal (sp?) evidence is just that. For some, the NSD works -- great; for layer3guy, magnesium citrate seems to work -- great. But just because I did nothing and suddenly felt better doesn't mean that this will happen to others as well. After about 3 months of feeling great, my AS came back with a vengence. Let's be careful out there.