Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; I need help!

Please help!

I am new to this site but I have read enough to know about the NSD and LSD. The NSAID's aren't working so I figured I'd give this a try. I have been cutting out most starches now for five days - nothing structured - I'm just not eating breads, potatoes, etc. - the obviously starchy things. I was surprised to see actual improvement. I have had three days in a row that are better than any days I can remember in the last two years!!! That has convinced me to actually try this diet for real but I have a few questions.

Aren't there nutrients that are lost by removing such a major food group? If so, what are they and how do you get them back? For instance, don't you need more fiber?

Also, should I start with the LSD and move to the NSD if that doesn't work or the other way around? I have seen improvement from the efforts I have already made so that tells me that the LSD would probably work.

Also, What about sugar and things with sugar in them?

I would appreciate any advice I can get that will help me get started.
Thanks, Stacey

Hi, Stacey:

Welcome to the forum!

Everyone has had different experiences, and it depends upon how patient you are to help decide whether the NSD or LSD is the best place to start. Some on the LSD did not seem to improve even after nine months; their ESRs decreased somewhat, so their pain levels did not change very much.

Ideally, you would first do a cleansing like the apple diet, then go NSD and experience the most optimum results for a couple of months before 'experimenting' up to LSD.

Whether there is an impact upon your health by missing some nutrients depends on what types of starches you were eating before. White flour products have nearly zero vitamins and minerals, but whole grains contain some vitB. Potato skins contain some trace minerals, especially a good form of iodine; seafish will easily make up this deficit. I very much encourage supplementation and there are many posts about this, but be certain to test all your supplements with iodine...just like your food.

Sugars are not so bad in small quantities, but more complex sugars after table sugar are not digested early enough to avoid being food for the bad bacterium: Lactose is the most common of these and should be totally avoided on the initial regimen (no milk products).

The hope is that you will allow your tract to heal enough so that you will then be able to tolerate some higher starch level. Many of us even eat rice (it is not one of Ebringer's "four major poisons'') after some time more strict. It may depend upon how long you were taking the NSAIDs and their strength. I have some unfortunate experience with older drugs and have serious lesions which have lasted through a couple of years of total starch elimination. Even a very little bit of starch provokes a reaction unless I take some antibiotic. I hope this will not be your experience.

Carol's book is very helpful, but there are also many recipes in the recipe forum.

Good luck to you, and please let us know of your progress,

John



"Any teacher who can be replaced by a machine, should be."
Isaac Asimov, 'Project Hole-in-the Wall'

Hi Stacey,

I have a GP who is an advocate of this diet for everyone, not only arthritic patients. I asked him the same question about missing nutrients by removing a major food group and he said you are not missing anything. His theory is the food pyramid is outdated and the wheat boards are behind the 8-10 servings of bread products per day, especially when you are eating processed and white flour products.

As for fibre, when you consume 10 servings of fruit and vegetables per day you should find this fills your fibre need.

Whether you start NSD and then go LSD is purely a personal choice. The diet is a big adjustment and if it is easier for you to start LSD and gradually work your way into it then so be it. If the diet is working so well for you that you want to start NSD right off then all the more power to you. Whatever works for you and keeps the pain at bay is the ultimate goal.

Good luck to you and let us know if it works for you.

Debbie

Plant a seed of friendship; reap a bouquet of happiness.

Hi Stacey,

Good to hear you have had some improvements with cutting back some starch. Hopefully you will see more results in the future.

Nutrients lost? Well... I believe if you are eating a lot of fruits and veggies, it probably makes up for dropping the grains. I believe grains are high in the B vitamins. I also supplement... Multi, E, C, D, Calcium, B complex.

Fiber - I struggled with regularity first transitioning to the NSD. But I believe my body adjusted after time. Also, the 3 day apple diet helps improve this quite a bit in my case. Not sure why/how, but I have noticed this.

Sugar - I avoid table sugar, but otherwise eat a lot of fresh fruits some dried fruits and one glass of fruit juice daily. Some others I believe have to watch their sugar intake.

I went straight to NSD... but you can start out LSD... maybe that is all you need. These days I am LSD and doing pretty good. Currently in a small flare, but it is stress induced from work rather than my diet.

Noted in Support Forum comments regarding hoping to become pregnant... left you a note regarding pregnancy and this diet that you should consult your Doctor.

Take care,

Tim

Hope is only a post away with KickAS.

Hiya Stacie and



I'm glad you guys are giving this diet a go, and I say that for 3 reasons:

one:
I took at all the foods that irritatted me, the bowel started on an older nsaid, and by 1988 was ruining my life. The foods I took out were pizza, pasta, white bread, chips, potatoes fried food. I moved to mainly stir fries with heaps of veggies. Any tummy or soreness back on the diet and really hard for a few days then slacking off. It really helped heaps. I was a bit energy starved but soon got back into heaps of exercise these days I can go days without proper eating, you learn that with IBD.



two:
As some know my son was showing signs and had some early childhood changes so we moved him to a starch aware diet, and replaced the whites with the wholemeals and he's turned around in the last few months so well. I'm so pleased for him.


three:
've got plenty of time on my hands at the moment and the research I'm doing esp looking 60% of AS guys have not sympomatic small chrons type lesions in the upper bowel/lower small intestine.

1 in 6 of Ulcerative colitis another form of bowel disease linked with AS go onto to develop or have AS or a similar SpA which in some opinons is very similar.

Tips:
I find that singapore noodles used to be really really ok, not all noodles are like that but for some reason it used to help a flare.

I'm not a great fruit lover but when I force myself gez I feel better all around. i tried the freshly squeezed limes and that is terrific, grapes too.

Try dates for extra fibre they've also got some B's in them i checked thatout in a nutrional bible.

Beans are deadly!

Alcohol will really wipe you out now so go careful avoid it for some time.

Good luck

David

Hi Dave,

What is a Singapore noodle and where do you get them?

Plant a seed of friendship; reap a bouquet of happiness.

Hi,

Singapore noodles is a dish, most chinese/malay food counters or shops offer it as well, they normally use a thin noddle, I can't rememebr which one...I'll find out,

but that used to help alot when I has having trouble and did n't seem to cause any flare problems. Travels well through the system.

It can have some chilli and indian curry powder in the dish though so early on, you might want to avoid that, bit can contain fresh seafood some meat and easy veggies. So if you order it ask them to reduce or take out the bad stuff.

(There was a discussion on this some months back and someone piped up on the noodle types).

David

Stacey,

what you have done, eliminating the major starch sources from your diet, is exactly what Ebriger advised his patients to do, neither more nor less. If you eat meat, fish, eggs, fruit and veg you get all the nutrients you need. It would be incredible if you did not, because that is the diet our species evolved on.

This we prescribe though no physician . . .
Our doctors say this is no month to bleed. (Rich. II)

Same here, NSAIDS weren't cutting it anymore. I started out NSD, but actually very LSD because I didn't have the knowledge to do a proper NSD. I recieved some improvement with the little setbacks now and again, but didn't get the motherload until I totally kicked Starch and sugars. Over time you'll learn from here and on your own. Strive for the NSD, get there and see what you want to do. LSD seems to just keep the little buggers tick'd off and wanting revenge. After awhile you won't mind the diet and it becomes second nature. There's alot of good things to eat still and you'll find them as you progress. Remember though not everyone is the same and as you add things that others have no problem with you might find they are painfull to you.

KickAs, even when it's down.

Allan

I can kick the starch, but the sugar is tough. All my teeth are sweet teeth.