Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion #1 AS Web Support Group I Think This Camel's Back is Broken

Kat
Who told you you can't take anti-depressants and Tylenol 3's...I have been
prescribed anti-depressants while on Oxy-contin,than later while taking
morphine...Think you got different dr's opinions conflicting,
sometimes they mix worse than the meds....

Depression can cause pain...pain can cause depression..I would be willing
to bet at least 80 percent of people in chronic pain are depressed..Either
by a chemical imbalance,or just plain ole situational depression...

Alohaben was right in saying klonopin,xanax or even valium at bedtime is a
good muscle relaxant..Although like narcotics,they can be addicting...

There is also the chance you may have some type of mechanical damage,
doctors have not yet found...Only takes a couple of well placed bone spurs
to deal you all kinds of misery...


Hang in there!!!!

David

Hi Kat,

I know how difficult it is when you have all sorts of medical advice but do not know who to believe. Emotions can cause pain. I have learned that. I guess I had been under a lot of stress before my strokes and the DRs all say that most of it was caused by my bad homelife. I don't remember anything. I hope that the anti-depressants help and that the pain will be controlable. I was in tremendous pain before too but now it is different. I will keep you in my prayers.

Take care and huggggggs,
Lisa

KickAS is more than a support group...it is a family!

Oh Kat, your post made me very sad . You must feel like your going in circles. With so much going on and so many opinions about drugs etc. I've been there hun, so I can truly sympathize.

What David said about the anti-depressent and Oxy was true for me also. As you know I was on Oxy for years. I was dealing with a lot of pain plus extreme stress in my personal life. Most of it was situational such as moving 3x in 5 months due to a house fire.
I was told the Oxy may have contributed to the depression but it didn't matter to me at the time because I wasn't sleeping well and I couldn't concentrate due to headaches. I also was crying more and that's not something I do very often. I wasn't myself and I knew it. I didn't know what was worse, the physical pain or the feelings of hopelessness that I would always be in that state. The mild anti-depressent really helped take the edge off. I am glad I took it when I did. I am no longer on Oxy or the anti-depressent.

I hope you get some answers soon because you can't let yourself get too run down, sleep is vital! Please know I am here if you need me just PM me anytime. You are a wonderful support to all who come here so we need you to get well ok?

Take care
Love
Kathy





"The most beautiful stones have been tossed by the wind and washed by the waters and polished to brilliance by life's strongest storms."

Yo Kat-

My x-rays from the past three years apparently show no changes in damage, no joint damage, nothing....how can that be??? I know how you feel, how do I explain without strangling my rheumy that I'm in PAIN....so I must be inflamed...or in spasm...either way...

Vioxx cut my pain level as you only need to take one pill every 12 hours, but my liver enzymes elevated....I now only take it in emergencies...that and Advil...lasts 4 hours tops....

I barely sleep sometimes and this can mess you up big time at work...it's 2pm, do I know where my brain is?? Several coworkers and I crawl out of our offices at 3pm to make coffee...but they sleep, they sleep!!

I have so many pills I take besides the doc's....fish or flaxseed oil, bromelain, B5, a good multi, a stress-B, minerals...when I don't take them regularly I can feel the pain...but I also try to stay Low Starch....anything to relieve pain!!! Beer, beer is good, sometimes....I understand how Rush Limbaugh ate too many Oxycontins...I've never gotten them and will refuse...it could be too good...

hang in there, especially in the changing weather...eat more vitamins, the weather can put me in a deep freeze....

Peace'
Linc

Linc O'Brien

Kat! I don't see why you can't take anti-depressants and Tylenol 3.MY psyc gave me a low dosage of prozac while I was on AS meds.I still was in a lot of pain when I went to my Rheumy visit.HE asked me if I needed some stronger pain meds.I was taking 800mg of Ibuprophem(SP)I said yes.He gave me propoaphen(sp) has codene.He said just no alcohol.He knew I was on prozac.I had another Psyc appointment.I told him my wife thought I was getting depressed again.He doubled the prozac.I had less pain within a couple of weeks.I still was taking the codene stuff.I went back to my Rheumy(regular visit) He took me off it because I was ready to start ENbrel.I am still taking the Prozac and probably will have to for a while.I know meds affect us in different ways but please check it out.Hang in there.I do think an anti-depessant will help with the pain.
Jim

Hi Kat~

I can see how you'd be very upset about this... I got upset just reading our post.
First off, I want to tell you that I take antidepressants, lithium, Tylenol # and Percocet EVERYDAY for the last several years. I'm more stable now, on the meds, than I have been my whole life. If she's worried about a drug interaction, then she should consider one that will be fine to take with your current meds. Your psych needs her own psych.

Only YOU know the pain you feel. Your Rheum has a pretty good idea of your pain.
Your Psych knows your brain, NOT your body. What she did was pat you on the head, tell you that it's all IN your head, and to stop taking the meds that are helping you with the pain. Hmmmm.... not nice. I'm sure she's good at her specialty, but that's where she needs to stay focused, and let the other specialists take care of you too.

I don't want to come across as being nasty, please forgive me if I do. I just feel that she over stepped her boundary as a professional.

I hope you feel better soon!! I was right where you're at just a couple weeks ago. Frustrated, confused, and down right pissed off. Justifiably so. Like you, I hadn't cried in the longest time, but I hit that brick wall and lost it. Right in the Rheum's office.
But boy did it feel good, and got them on their toes.

Big hugs to you!!

Stacie

Sorry to hear that you are in so much pain...mentally and physically...
I do take antidepresants and I wouldn't be without them (Nortriptylene). I take one at bed time only. I also use tylenol 3 with codine and most recently Morphine. Now when I took the morphine with the antidepresant the y counteracted each other and I couldn't sleep, so I took tylenol3 with the antidepresant and they worked fine together. So don't be afraid to use them both if the Dr. or Pharmacist say so.
Thats what worked for me anyway.

Dan

>>>>>>
We are kicking some AS*.

Kat,

So sorry. I too have the FM DX thrown at me and after loads of searching, to me its only an expanation that says allot of my joints hurt. Dx du jour? Maybe. I have a few issues with this FM thing and I am still in pain. Could it be that my Rheumy has absolute faith in Remicade that if it does not work then the patient has FM? Many questions and I have only just begun the search. They put me on Tramadol. Now I am a stoner. I will have to find out in the end or it will probably kill me. Sorry to be so rash, but I do not like this FM thing. I hope you have many pain free days ahead and hang in there.

Doug

May Pain Freeness be with you!!

Yes, emotional stress can make us more sensitive to whatever pain we're in, but it's a chicken and egg thing. Does the stress cause the pain? Or does the pain make the depression/stress thing become overwhelming. I went on Arava in October of 2001. Rick died (stressed!!!!!) and I fully expected a huge flare to result. It didn't. I felt awful, depressed, etc., etc., but my pain levels did not increase, I stayed in remission. Before Arava all the NSAIDS only took the edge off the pain, nothing made me feel "normal." After Arava I went through a ghastly nightmare with Rick's death, something that surely would send me right over the edge -- except it didn't, AS wise. So the only drugs I have any faith in are the new DMARDS, they got me through this very bad time when all my coping skills had to be used just getting through one day at a time. If I had had to cope with a mega flare they might as well have committed me to Sunny Acres Home for the Mentally Deranged. Antidepressants can be helpful, and not just for depression, also for sleeping better which of course helps us cope with the days better. But I do wish the newer stuff out there, non NSAID, were used more as a first, not last, line of defense.

Wish I could hug you in person, Kat, but cyberhugs are the best I can do. So ((((((((BIG HUG))))))

Cheryl

If you can't be a good example you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.
Jennifer Cruisie

Dogs don't want to know about every other dog you've been with

Inanna,

Hmm, Old Ben may be on to something. I wonder what would happen if you cut back on the Vioxx?

In terms of anti-depressants, I will throw something out from the laboratory: They did the Mash; they did the Monster Mash! Whoops, wrong season! Anyway, this what I really call a message:

SFN: Bupropion May Aid Patients With Inflammatory Bowel Disease By Roberta Friedman, PhD (I know it says IBD but keep reading.)

NEW ORLEANS, LA -- November 10, 2003 -- A drug for psychiatric conditions may have a new use in treating inflammatory bowel disease if pilot data presented here November 8th at the meeting of the Society for Neuroscience, bear out in larger trials.

Bupropion lowered levels of tumor necrosis factor (TNF) in eight patients who were taking bupropion for depression, (Okay, stop reading.) with seven entering the normal range for the inflammatory agent. Levels of TNF ranged from 20 to 1250 pg/mL before bupropion, and dropped to 14 to 2 pg/ml afterwards. One patient's levels remained elevated, at 94 pg/mL.

Larger studies are underway, in Crohn's disease, and in other diseases linked with TNF.

Prior publication by the investigators indicated that some patients taking the agent have remission of Crohn's symptoms. Another short paper in press duplicates the finding. Psoriasis apparently also improves with the drug treatment, according to another, recent paper.

"There are a lot of TNF-[related] diseases," said investigator Eric Altschuler, resident, rehabilitation medicine, Mt. Sinai Medical Center, New York, United States. "Obviously large, randomised trials are needed [to show the effect of bupropion on TNF is real]," said Dr. Altschuler, but, he added, "if this is true, [bupropion] is cheap, safe, and it's easy [to give]. Doctors have a good comfort level [with the drug]."

The investigators speculate that the result with TNF comes about through activation of dopamine, which increases cyclic adenosine monophosphate inside cells, thereby decreasing the manufacture of TNF by macrophages.

Caution: Note the special interest
Dr. Altschuler is an inventor listed on a patent application for use of bupropion as a TNF-lowering agent, filed by the University of California. He is also an advisor to GlaxoSmithKline.

[Study title: Bupropion (Wellbutrin) lowers tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF) levels: Implications for disease treatment. Abstract 105.8]
-----
So, if your shrink wants to pull out the prescription pad, and Wellbutrin is an acceptable choice, and you are in an experimental mood, then ...



Yeah, I know, it sounds a little squirrelly