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#126645 09/14/03 08:05 AM
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uksue Offline OP
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Hmmm..mornin to y'all..whether it's top of it, or of the fractal!

Jan's post about being ok with starch after pregnancy and after being starch free for a while takes me back to the question that many friends/folk ask if I explain about my NSD... vis: will you be able to eat it again after a while.

CAN WE ZAP the Kp..or whatever it is that's livin' in there and aint invited or has been having too much rumpy pumpy?

In theory, if our bods are balanced, in every which way..we should be able to. Just how difficult is it to zap the buggers..can they hide out in corners, can they be dormant and ostensibly invisible to immune system or antibios etc. AND... is it possible to slip back into a 'reject starch habit' just because of the memory in our cells, even without the presence of KP or other critters... due to those particular cells having created a morphic field (for Ted!) and/or simply following a 'strange attractor' type pattern (another one for Ted!!)

The other question/statement I sometimes get is....'surely just a little bit won't harm'.....
Ggrrr!
So...when I've tested before (before I got confirmation that it was starch, I tried intoducing veg, fruit, herbs in various combo's and singly on many, many occasions) I've always gone with the principle of testing a normal size portion... over one day or several days, depending on reaction.... as I felt that 'just trying to reintroduce a little bit at a time'... which is the prevailing philosophy, could well mask an insidious, slow build up of intolerance...as happens often in normal life...sometimes taking years to reach criticality.

The questions therefore are... a) can we ever get back to starch eating in balanced quantities and b) if not in normal quantities should we avoid altogether because of the insidiousness of it?
Anyone got any light please?!
Cheers,
Sue


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In reply to:

Jan's post about being ok with starch after pregnancy




I was referring to experimenting with starches - as in would I be able to tolerate some starches in order to be able to consider pregnancy.

In the name of research I maxxed out on starches, curious to see how bad it would get - I needed to know for my own peace of mind that I wasn't going to potentially slip back to my pre-NSD symptoms - if that had been the case there'd have been no way I'd have entertained the thought of pregnancy.

My experiments showed me I would be able to, however meantime back at the ranch, the relationship went down the toilet and I remain childless - *whew!*

Take care,

Jan

The first and best victory is to conquer self

— Plato



Edited by twisks on 09/15/03 09:57 AM (server time).


#126647 09/14/03 11:34 AM
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uksue Offline OP
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Whoops...those pesky prepositions again...I meant before and not after pregnancy, but after not before already having been starch free!!!

And..nulli who?! I been to the nulli bor desert in Oz..that have anything to do with it?!

Edited by uksue on 09/14/03 07:37 AM (server time).


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Hi Sue,

There are a couple of websites dedicated to treating rhuematic diseases with antibiotics. They are Roadback Foundation and Rhuematic.org. Both are good and worth taking a look at. There are also several people on this board who use antibiotics to treat AS. It is something I am looking at right now having limited success with the diet. Take a look at those websites and let me know what you think. Take care.

Deborah



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Hi, Sue:

One of the reasons I am so adamant about Kp, aside from doing a 'single-blind' test on my own (by accident) as well as many other confirmations ("anecdotal" to some with just enough knowledge to be dangerous)...is that with such proof could come some potentially more effective treatments--like macrophage cocktails, or re-implant of Kp with an altered sequence (gene therapy applied to the parasite instead of the host).

I do use antibiotics, and believe that the reason I require them is extreme damage due to NSAID usage. Others have used antibiotics without particular attention to starches: Cipro is very effective against Kp--at first; in the presence of starches, resistive strains select out quickly to replenish colonies, and AS returns too soon (<1 year).

Maybe I keep the little beggars guessing, since I switch antibiotics often, but after four years Cipro is still effective for me, to some extent. I like cephalexin, tetracycline, and the occasional Flagyl to keep the C. dificile down: Antibiotics have their own set of problems, and they can also compromise the mucosa and create a C. albicans overgrowth that, by itself, can initiate AS (and polyarthritis) due to intestinal damage. I do the occasional caprylic acid, garlic, colloidal silver, as well as fasting and apple diets to keep any hint of candidiasis away (hope it's working). I'm even experimenting with rf therapies and radioactivity, but no joy yet... I am not the best test subject, since my diet is so strict and I do everything I can to avoid a flare.

Well, I suppose that the best answers to your question are not very satisfying:

a) Depends upon who you are--the intestinal history (NSAID usage especially), and where the lesions remain and how well they are allowed to heal. 'Balanced' starches, to me, indicates unrefined (with germ), unmilled, and unbleached in some small quantities, but potatoes are the exception because of the solubility of this type of starch.
b) I used to think that reaction to starches was non-linear relationship; it sure seems like it when a flare is produced. However, there are many factors involved in the initiation of a flare: Food combinations (determines transit time of bolus and chyme), character of starches (finely divided, like flour, is terrible; big and few chunks, like rice, may be tolerable), lesions, etc. Now, I am convinced that when AS is already active, the amount of starch is proportional to the disease activity, but there is a threshold that, remaining below, we enjoy freedom from new symptoms and have to work on remnants from past episodes.

It is certainly in our interest to steer research policy in the direction of attacking the source of the problem, instead of putting a bandaid over symptoms. And, we need to make others more starch-aware, so that our foods are not indiscriminately adulterated with starches, and more options are available to us--the Atkins people have really helped in this regard.

Will be a sad blow to our detractors when their doctors hand them a prescription to follow Atkins!

Best to You,
John


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uksue Offline OP
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Hi Deborah
I really have no right to comment on antibio's as I am not diagnosed with anything and not in the pain that some of you guys are or would be without your antibio's.

Personally however, I can't see as how they would ever get rid of the Kp period... I do understand some folk will see it/know it as ' as good as you can get'. And for some that's where they're at, which I respect.

But I do know that antibio's kicked off my symptoms again multiplied by ten and changed my life forever (but actually not in the end result in a bad way!)
There are many out there..medics etc, who would say how they (antibios) have literally saved life and limb... and I don't dispute this... and would add sanity to the list. However I think as long as we rely on them we don't place sufficient research stress on less drastic alternatives (some old, some new and some way out).

I'm simply trying to get some answers..not get to the bottom of things ...I don't think that's possible.... but maybe find some common denominators as there seems to be lots of conditions that a NSD diet assists. So I'm very interested in the fact that the diet doesn't help you. (And sorry but not at all interested in looking at antibios...at this point in my life)

Sorry if it sounds patronising but I have to ask if you have looked at every conceivable source of starch... cooked veg, unripe fruit, medications, lotions and potions and cleaning products, cheese rinds, any form of processed food..etc etc etc bladdeblah...I'm sure you have! Do you have AS, IBS and/or something else?
It's a pretty big one as to why the diet works for some and not others...like a gluten free diet for coeliacs doesn't work in a small percentage of cases... is it because the SI has got too many lesions and therefore all food is potentially a problem...is it possible for the bod to get this far? Is it a pesky critter that has evolved to live on something non starchy ... in the absence of starch, e.g by converting fats?

Oh my head

Thanks for listening (?)
uksue


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uksue Offline OP
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Hi John
I know what you're saying about reimplanting an 'evolved towards benign' (engineered) Kp... trouble is that's just one critter of millions..how do we begin to evolve them all..and sooner rather than later they will catch on and find a way to de-evolve!

Maybe you ARE the best subject...with a strict diet.... ie holding as many variables as possible steady.

I was expecting the answer 'it depends' to my question a)...but needed to hear it!

I agree that there are many poss combinations of factors involved..which is why we need a common denominator and to work at a simple level and at the risk of being shot down in flames I feel antibios confound this... albeit getting folk through the day. I feel generally that in looking for solutions to health probs we need to take away, not add to... in order to BE as simple as poss and let the body become more efficient at it's own job. And those pesky threshholds..like goalposts, tend to be constantly changing...with life!

I agree with what you say about unadulterated starches...unmilled and whole etc. However the problem I feel is more fundamental in that the food we consume is simply not 'ready' for us. Given a whole, germ-intact and unmilled wheat grain that has not been allowed to get to the appropriate ripening point and thereby change/breakdown the antinutrients which are it's natural protective factors... is as damaging if not MORE SO that a denatured, 'half the story' grain coated in toxic chemicals.

Like so many things, we need to focus at ground level. We need to put health before profit to use a well worn.... and that requires a quiet revolution as is happening already but needs pushing now and again.. (because of 'gravity'!)

But my second original question was for thoughts on 'normal' quantities for testing versus 'small amounts'.... of what's currently available.. ie starches as they appear on our supermarket shelves/grocery stores. (Ideals cost!)

Cheers
uksue



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