Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; immune system boosting dangers?

Hi Arjan,

When taking MSM at 10 to 15 grams a day.
How are you breaking up the dosages throughout the day?

Thanks

Chris

oh easy adn not that critical,

I take about 4 grams with each meal, which makes 12 grams a day.

or two times 5 grams, if I get up late and eat only twice.

regards, Arjan

Thanks for the info. Nice to know what works for others.

Chris

The immune system is definately too complex to just say that "any immune booster will worsen immune disorders".. That is my 2 cents.

I know from experience that using echinacea several times in the past that it does trigger my iritis quickly and reliably. And I consider iritis a side-effect of the state of the immune system in the rest of my body .. and perhaps oxidative stresses caused by all that inflammation.

On the other hand..One recurring theme is people have found their AS pains subside during a bad flu / fever.. Their immune system is in over-drive, so you would have expected their AS to worsen - and yet we see the opposite happening. Why? I could probably come up with a bunch of theories..
I have also tried both ginger and noni juice and I find that both work very well when I take enough to raise my body temperature to the point that my whole body feels noticeably warm (making them pyrogenic?). This mild fever does seem to parallel the effects of a bad flu. Perhaps our immune system is distracted .. and too busy to go around attacking our joints?

"So long and thanks for all the fish" - Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy

Yeah zark,

but when I get flu, my AS is much much worse. I have my locked up joints unlocked so with a clean back i'll try the supplements again. we'll see

alpha-lipoic acid
nac
cats claw

Arjan

hmm.. can't say that I can remember ever having my AS subside or flair due to a flu myself...

Though the effect would have to depend on what kind of immune response your body produced. ie, whether your body started producing more IgM and less IgE .. or some effect like that on the balances between the bodies production of different types of immune cells ...

"So long and thanks for all the fish" - Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy

Just to note that it is early winter here and all around me everyone has a cold (no not SARS) including my household. Consequently i took up my dosage of Vit C with Zinc.
Yesterday i could feel the bugs trying to take me over/down so took Vit C on the hour. The bug almost won the battle, i'm still fighting it and i awoke with sore lower chest and ribs and maybe liver kidneys, but it soon went. I'm also taking lots of ginger and the usual garlic so feel totally immuune stimulated.....
So yes, it seems my AS reacts to the immune stimulation, but it is better than having a runny cold and sick head.
I'll back off the VitC to see if the inflammation is there tomorrow AM.

Ted
"Auto-immunity or self-help - no decision"

Hi Arjan,

That is very interesting about eichinachae. I have heard anyone with autoimmune diseases should not take it. Another thing I was wondering about on the same lines as boosting your immune system is a vaccination such as flu shot . About the time my AS escalated in pain was about the same time I had a flu shot. I was thinking the other day if that may have got the ball rolling in the wrong direction. Does anyone know whether vaccination shots , flu shots for example can cause problems or was it just a coincidence that it all happened at the same time? I thank you in advance for any information on this topic?


Deborah

My Naturopath did her major dissertation on innoculations causing Autism - another auto-immune condition. There is now so much on the net about autism and the measles shots etc.
Basically an injection of anything by-passes the first few immune system processes as sticking a needle into you body is about as unnatural an act as one can imagine, we are not really evolved for it......yet - just like wheat
A sudden input of dead virus or virus protein will create a sudden stimulation of the immune system - wherever that material ends up - producing sudden inflammation and then a suitable antibody production.
Although i know little about innoculation effects, i would expect there to be a large biochemical/biophysical difference between :
1 Actually contacting an entire organism and gaining automatic immunity via the total immune system and
2 Gaining pseudo-immunity by injecting the organisms by-products into our body tissue having jumped past the gut, respiratory system etc.

Ted
"Auto-immunity or self-help - no decision"

Deborah, I think it is very logical that a flu shot could increase pain due to AS.

Well, I am not blaming AS on vaccinations ! AS has been around longer than that.. As for whether vaccination can cause problems. I am all for vaccination with "dead material".. but watch out for the "live vaccinations". A minority of people have compromised or ineffective immune systems, whose bodies do not remove the weak but live microbes. Here is my own experience:

=========================================
I went to a doctor in may 2002 and had a vaccination, as I was heading off to Malaysia for a holiday. The doctor gave me a *live* Typhoid vaccination. I took it without second thoughts. I thought "how cool" nothing better than the real thing right ?? Boy was I WRONG !! Within just a few days I was extremely ill. My holiday really sucked. I came down with typhoid before even leaving Australia.

What happened? I was supposed to be vaccinated AGAINST typhoid, and instead they INFECTED ME. It took me ages to realize that any time I ate fruit or fruit juice I got really sick again (fruit is one of typhoids vectors). So I stopped eating fruit, and that made all the difference in the world.

At this point I went to the doctors .. and kept having tests come back negative for any infection. The doctors assured me I could not be infected as the tests were sensitive enough, and one doctor made the rediculous remark "that coughing after eating fruit must me some kind of fruit allergy.. ARGHH #$%$#, I can not describe how frustrating this was!!..

By the way, typhoid is basically unheard of in Australia. So the stream of stupid doctors that had no idea, at least have an excuse for their ignorance. The only doctor I found who actually had a clue was an asian lady who knew to look for the tell tale "typhoid roses" (typhoid used to be common in south east asia). Unfortunately the spots only came up after eating fruit...

So NINE months after being given my "infective vaccination".. out of frustration I had a meal of fruit before a blood test... it came back positive for typhoid. I still had typhoid nine months after the vaccination !! And the majority of doctors I had been to were of no help at all.

All the doctors believed that their tests were sensitive enough to detect an infection. The fact is they were wrong. Happily, I am over that problem.. and I can eat fruit these days..

I find my experience correlates well with the MMR vaccination / autism hypothesis:
a) "live vaccination" can lead to an ongoing low level infection that the body does not fully remove
b) Even modern testing is not sensitive enough to pick up all forms of low level infection
c) "Live vaccination" methods are not perfect. They should not be put up on a pedestal.

Don't get the wrong impression of me though, vaccinations are very important. That is why I had one in the first place. However, doctors currently treat vaccination as beyond criticism. To try and bring up any debate on the matter is treated as heretical blasphemy


"So long and thanks for all the fish" - Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy