Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; why do I feel worse?

I have been gluten-free and LSD since Oct/02 and took the plunge to NSD 4 days ago. Initially I felt better (first day after low pressure weather system moved through which is not unusual for me). Now, 4 days later, I feel worse. More hot spots coming back in my thoracic spine.

I am not taking any supplements but have continued Celebrex in the hopes I could drop it after a short time with NSD. I am not eating dairy or chocolate (my biggest weakness) either. My typical daily consumption includes salmon, tuna, chicken or eggs for protein and fruits and vegetables. No starch whatsoever. I test everything with iodine. I also eat a lot of raw almonds (a big handful) throughout the day.

What is going on? Should I stop eating eggs? Am I being too impatient? I don't mind making this change to my diet for the better but I need SOME positive results to encourage me.

Note: when I went gluten-free last Oct I also tried to be NSD during the second week. At the end of that week I felt worse so I stopped NSD and continued with gluten-free and LSD. At the time I thought I had taken on too much and decided to focus on one thing at a time.

Any suggestions?

Stephanie

Hi, Stephanie:

I have no really firm explanation as to why the NSD would make you worse. This is a bit surprising, but the way things go with AS almost anything can happen I guess...

There are reasons that the NSD may not work very well, and we have discussed these before but basically--If you have candidiasis (yeast overgrowth that is only noticed in about 30% of sufferers. At highest risk if: Female, over 30, professional, taken antibiotics, had mono, unmarried, stressful job, history of asthma, hay fever, or skin rashes) the NSD will not work very well until this is taken care of. And if you have suffered many years and taken very many NSAIDs, the Kp colonization may be so extensive that the intestinal contents hardly matter; the bacterial turnover directly into our systems is the dominant factor.

Another (however odd) possibility is that the NSD is causing some type of health crisis. This term was coined by Dr. Garten and the alternative health community to describe an apparent relapse or even illness that is related to a cleansing or fasting regimen. With AS getting specifically worse (these are familiar pains increasing), this could actually be due to the Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction wherein destroyed bacteria will trigger the immune reaction as they die off and then separate from the colonies and are detected within our lymph.

I am most fond of fasting, the Edgar Cayce Apple Diet, and antibiotics to get over the initial stage of the NSD earlier and get a leg up on the benefits of the NSD. If the candidiasis is involved, however, the antibiotics are strictly off limits except to eradicate the C. albicans.

The egg yolks contain inflammatory agents, but are otherwise an important dietary factor (for the sulfur-bearing amino acids and lecithin). You might try eliminating the eggs for now--until out of flare, but the apple diet should do that more quickly. It is always better to start with a clean slate and then add foods back one at a time to see how you react. The diet can take some time to work, but you should notice a big difference after one month of being strict about it.

Hang in there--AS can be beaten,
John

Hi Stephanie, apart from a Herx reaction and an over-riding condition of candida (or other) there are allergies and intolerances and sensitivities that are very difficult to pick out (you may have always eaten them).
This is why a fast, or a cleansing apple fast giving a complete break from ALL usual foods can be very good. We introduce foods slowly and catch the offending one(s).
I doubt i would have been able to excise avocado from my diet without that method. I am almost 100% sure i can handle all dairy - the only doubt is with yoghurt - that may involve hidden starch or thickener.

I hope you can perservere and get a positive result.

Ted
proAS_KickAS

Hi John

Thank you for your reply.

As for canididiasis, my risk factors only include being a female over 30. I have taken antibiotics very sparingly, a few times as a child (ie: strep throat) and most recently about 5 years ago for a sinus infection. I did have a yeast infection 2 summers ago but I thought at the time it was caused by spending a lot of time in a wet bathing suit at the beach. I did have a problem with yeast infections during the latter part of my second/last pregnancy as well (4 1/2 years ago). How would I check to find out if this is the problem?

How do I find out if a Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction is occurring and what can I do about this?

I have been taking Celebrex since last Aug (400 mg per day). I had been able to reduce this to 300 mg per day and then 200 mg per day during Dec and Jan. I was even able to skip a dose on occasion. I thought that this was due to my gluten-free diet that I started in Oct. Then in Feb (right after my rheumatologist appt where everything was great -- of course!!) more intense pain returned. Since this did not relent I decided to go the extra step of NSD this month.

I will start the apple fast next week to see if that will give me a jump start. Like I said before, I don't mind making these changes to my diet and I am willing to perservere since this remedy is much preferred to the alternative (meds). Will one month of NSD be enough to know if it is going to work for me?

I appreciate all your advice. I can do the diet -- I just hope it can do it for me!

Stephanie

Hi Ted

Thank you for your advice. I will do the apple fast next week to get the kick start I need. I have my fingers crossed! As for candida, John (DragonSlayer) had the same thought and I posted my candida "particulars" in the reply to his post.

Thanks for the advice. I will perservere.

Stephanie

John,

I forgot to mention that I just got the AS diagnosis in January after 2 years of symptoms (back pains started Jan 2001 and SI pains started in May 2001). Prior to this, I had been experiencing mysterious short bouts of tingling in my extremities and pelvis. I had 3 MRI's and saw 2 neurologists to rule out some type of neurological disorder. These symptoms have all but ceased and MY big guess is that I had sub-clinical inflammation that affected the nearby nerves.

My SI pain was causing considerable interference with daily living by May 2002 and I started with NSAIDS. This was before I knew about the problem associated with these drugs and so now, instead of beating myself up about it, I am making efforts to move on to what I hope to be better health. As for my intestines, I have had some bouts of diarrhea that I think I have coincided with heavy starch meals/snacks. The joint pain started 1 year before the intestinal problem. The last couple of months have been quite stable in this area (I hope I have not offended anyone with this type of "talk").

So, there is some personal history for you -- don't know if it provides any valuable information?? I read all your posts with interest and it was your information that spurred me on to go to the next level (NSD)!

Stephanie

Hi Stephanie

I don't really have an answer for you... sorry...
but I do really hope that you will have a good result with NSD like many of us here.

Take care ~

Jasmine

Hi Sam,

Glad to hear you trying the NSD... hopefully you can come by some answers for the reason of the pain.

My thoughts are with Ted.... could be an allergen food, or even a "hidden" starch. I tried a new multi-vitamin and after 2 days had to stop... the capsule had starch in it. Also cauliflower causes me stiffness and I do not believe it is starchy.

I went as strict at first as I could with a very limited diet to get pain free, then reintroduced foods slowly so I knew which were keepers and which caused pain. I still continually sample new foods to know what I can and can not eat with the diet.

Maybe keep a food diary..... or post ALL your foods here for us to review. Another I had issues with early were pork sausages.... modified starch hidden within.

Take care,

Tim

"I had no shoes and complained, until I met a man who had no feet" - Indian Proverb

Hi Stephanie, although you only mention diarrhoea, check against IBS for any other gastric symptoms you may have as it frequently occurs with AS. The key is gastric upset and as we all have learned, our GITs have been compromised at some stage.
Alongside our diet, the actual goal is to heal our digestive tract so aloe vera or slippery elm or marshmallow or something else is almost mandatory for those with badly damaged tracts. For some, just the change in diet and the exclusion of glue (starch) is enough.

In reply to:

---

salmon, tuna, chicken or eggs for protein and fruits and vegetables

---

Sounds fine, but as Tim and i suggest, the actual fruit and the actual vegetable are important to each individual.

I have a theory, untested with double blinds of course, that anyone who gets immediate relief from LSD/NSD is almost probably a B27 positive.
B27 negatives need more tract healing first as they have a concurrent reaction to some proteins and peptides. They possibly do better with a fatty diet and muco-saccharides. we probably all do.
Just a theory though, with some technical mumbo-jumbo thrown in for appearances.
Eat well and please keep posting progress or stagnation.
Did you improve when you stopped NSD?
Was there some specific fruit/veggie you also stopped?

Ted
proAS_KickAS

hi Stephanie,

I just wanted to say hi and "let's keep at it"! I started NSD mid-Feb and have had some encouraging results but don't yet have all the answers in my situation yet either. I have some days where I'm very sore etc but some times feel great and haven't figured out really what triggers the inconsistency... plus my situation is more complex like yours and I used to be that "over-30 highly stressed single career woman with the occasional yeast infection and hay fever - all those risk factors - who lies in bed each night in her prison of a body yearning to escape as tears roll down her face once again due to pain". Now I'm the "over-40 stay at home mom who lies in bed each night analysing every morsel that went into her mouth that day or will go in tomorrow but who has HOPE for health, hope when I didn't have any hope for health the past 5 years ago, due to the success of others on this board". Let's persevere, press on, and find solutions for us. Health could be just around the corner :)
blessings to you,
Peggy