Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion #1 AS Web Support Group HomeSchooling

Shalinara,

I'm so happy you took my post as you did :) I didn't mean to say that teen pregnancies aren't any "worse" than any other parent (or even any "better"), it's just the whole idea of not being ready and having to give up a LOT. You're obviously doing a great job as a parent to care enough to pull him out of the system despite so any detractors. But I really am grateful I wasn't (and still am not) any more "involved" with boys than I need to be.

I don't have any kids (and personally don't want any either) but all i can say is simply being "involved" with other kids does NOT make you socially adept. That's why it depends on the child for home schooling vs. the system. It's the whole introvert/extrovert thing.........either you like dealing with people or you don't.

Rox
http://www.geocities.com/artisan1998.geo/index.html

I was fortunate to homeschool my son for two years. He started out in a Montessori program so independent study/critical thinking came easy. Agree with everyone except for the person who brought up the socialization issue. Not that it is unimportant but I'm not sure how significant (especially during adolescence). The word is too vague and, ironically, carries an interesting twist on our national myth-making -- we celebrate the rugged individualist, our civil liberties, etc. at the expense of the social, communal responsibility, etc. Of course, Madison Ave. marketers are having an easier time socializing our kids than we are. And there seems to be an underlying value assumption that equates socialization with success, solitude with failure. Peer interaction offers valuable learning experiences but I'm not sure if peer pressure negates it. It may very well be the educational system. Spend a day in a middle or secondary school and you'll realize how minimal learning can be. Nor does the pedagogical learning style (teacher lectures, student absorbs) have practical applications other than the discipline of memorizing. Lost is creative and critical thinking. It is too bad that between the ages of 12 and 18 kids couldn't focus on those skills where they are most expressive -- the fine arts. Imagine the difference in learning that would occur? Plato thought so. We spend billions of dollars on education each year -- I'm glad we do -- but the kids who win or make it to the state and national finals in math, science, geography, and spelling bees are homeschoolers (my son was a state finalist in New York). That should tell us something (about class room size, curriculum content, etc.).
My son entered the seventh grade this past year. The transition was difficult; the coursework was bland and easy. He maintained high honors through the school year. I have also seen his enthusiasm for learning wane. The only time he gets excited is after I pick him up so we can discuss the material he's studying or when he is home reading or drawing. After middle school we're giving serious thought to homeschooling again. The advantages of homeschooling outweigh the advantages of peer interaction (at least at this point) . . . The question for us is simple: Creating a life long learner is more important than the few years honing popularity skills that become obsolete once he enters a college where intellect and interest are given greater regard than sports.

Leigh,

I am a home school "survivor". We home schooled our children for 8 years. They're both grown and on their own and so are we. Traveling the country in a 5th wheel trailer.

I saw in your profile that you're from MN. That is our home state also, although we're in NV right now. Our daughter is still in southern MN.

Wishing you well,
Valentine

Shalinara
Thanks for posting this question! I have read a ton of stuff on the net about home schooling and Government oops Public schools. I really think we will do the home schooling. My wife has some reservations and of course Grandma is worried about the social issues. I can talk with my wife but Mom well.. shes Mom LOL. I would have to urg anyone thinking of home schooling to read John Taylor Gatto's book, History of American Education. It was a real eye opener. I had no idea where our modern idea of school came from or its real purpose. The more I read of other studies of learning I was really pushed over the edge. I have bin thinking of home schooling since the children where born but it really came to the service again when I saw a storie on TV the other night showing the negative social enviroment of modern school. I dont want my kids in that. Well I could go on and on. Thank you again Shalinara for getting me started on the web search. I am off and running with it. Once I get the wife convinced I will talk it over with the kids.
I would like to hear from all of you that do home school how your kids first reacted to the idea of giving up public school? my youngest starts next year and wants to do everything brother got to do this year in school. So I will have to explain why we are going to home school in a way that little ones will grab onto. I dont want them to feel I am takeing something away from them. They can't understand the reasons I have to give them. Any ideas?

Hi Cindy
I'm thinking of home schooling. I have a five and six year old. I was woundering how you teach the different levels to each child being they are all with you? I dont think this will be an issue after the first year or of home schooling but to get started there will be a little difference. How do you teach all subjects to all the different ages in the same day? Ever hear the saying, "one boy, all boy. Two boys, half a boy. Three boys, no boy at all."? I was thinking of having one play and the other work with me then switch but dont really think that would work. For one thing it would be harder to get them on equal ground. Then teaching them together the one learns much faster than the other in different ways. I think they will have to have different tactics to learning. Let me stop talking long enough for you to get a word in, LOL. Take care.

Good for You!!
Home Schooling is GREAT for a family. I wish you all the best.
Mine are all grown now, I do wish you the best in a wonderful opportunity
for you and your family to have for a great learning experience!

Sending You Lots of Best Wishes and Support!!
Take care,
CA

Anna is 6. We are still working on Phonics to finish kindergarten.
I have to say homeschooling is work in progress. It can be scary and I'm not always sure I'm doing it right. But I know I will figure it out and do what's best for her. I may have to change the method more than once to make it click. Right now we use a packaged curriculum. I may have to venture out into different ways of teaching. I think it's too much reading to her instead of hands on. I'm thinking about the Charlotte Mason way.
I'll give a little history of my older girl. She was one of those pregnant 16 year olds.That is why she homeschools. She admits she learns more this way. BUT, she misses the socialization of public school. THAT is what she liked about school, seeing her friends. When she went to highschool in the 9th grade (too young) she failed several classes. Several. She was hanging around kids too old for her. Her focus wasn't learning but socializing. I have to keep after her every day to get her studies done. But she is slowly moving. Her focus is still socializing! I wonder how different it would've been had she been homeschooled.
She told me one time, "Mom you don't know what i go through everyday (at school)."
She said she knew only one person who was not sexually active.
One homeschooling father said he would rather have his ideas put into his child's head than the ideas of 20 peers.
You heard the saying? You can tell where someone is going to be in 5 years by who they hang around and what they read.
As far as socialization for Anna. That's a bit of a challenge. Boy is she different from her sister. She says the only friend she needs is her cousin. Anna is a very shy kid. But she is around many different ages. She will take some effort from me to get her more relaxed around people. But she'll come out of it eventually. I was shy, too, as a kid and I don't believe putting them in public school helps. You can't make a shy kid unshy by pushing them into a situation.
We don't send our kids to school to socialize, we send them to school to learn!!

I could write a book on this subject!The responses to this post have been full of useful information. There is one thing I want to add: Parents are ultimately responsible for their children's education, whether they are homeschooled, or attend a public or private institution. The decision to homeschool is a personal one. But there is no way to ignore the success stories of homeschooling.

I have been involved in an advisory capicity for homeschoolers in WV for several years. I have heard so many horror stories, there is no way I could ever send my children back. But it is possible to get a good education in a public school setting, and in some cases, it may be the best place for a particular child.

I started out teaching 2nd, 4th, and K with a preschooler under foot. That first year, we used worktexts for the 2 older boys, and I made up my own stuff for the girls. The next year, I decided to branch out on my own. We had workbooks for math, and the rest I pulled together. For instance, National Geographic was read (or read to) and discussed/debated by all. We did things like hands on science and social studies. I thought maybe my oldest wasn't being challenged enough, but he told me later that he learned more this way that he ever did in school. Maybe it was because he got to do part of the teaching. We did a unit on US geography. Each child did age/ability appropiate activities. No, the baby didn't learn all the states and capitals that year, but we all had fun and everyone learned something. We did a lot of work with the 2000 election. We watched, analyzed, and debated the debates. We went to political rallies, joined a local campaign tour, and our van was covered with posters. My oldest son joined a local politcal teen group. We religiously watched the news. We just didn't realize how much of an education we were going to get!!

Now that the boys are high school aged, they have taken over their own education. They decide what they want to study (within certain guidelines), and when. I told them that if they could show me that they were responsible, they had my blessing. They mostly use video programs and high school or college level textbooks. They enjoy learning and reading. My youngest son is involved in Bible Quizzing and is one of the best in the state. His memory is awesome. My oldest is apprenticed to a land surveyor. He works during the day, and studies at night. His best friends are adults, and he is picking up mannerisms from the people he spends his time with. Not long ago, he came to me and thanked me for taking him out of school. He said that he would not be the person he is now had he stayed in public school. He has teenage friends, but he has confided to me that they are so shallow. He is planning on homeschooling one more year, then heading off to engineering school.

My oldest daughter is learning disabled, so she has had to work harder at some things. I have found that I just needed to find another way to teach. (Now there's an inovative idea!!!) She and her younger sister are on different levels in math, but share all other textbooks and it is working well for them (and for me).

Socialization is a very touchy subject. I have been involved in "educating" our state legislature, and that seems to be the biggest misconception, beside lack of teacher training. When we started homeschooling, I worried about it, too. Now I know otherwise. Real life does not segregate people according to age and ability. We went once a month to a local nursing home to visit and volunteer. (We cried when it closed.) We are involved with church activities and Youth Group. We travel all over the state to Bible Quiz Tournaments. We go to community events and volunteer in the public schools. We participate in the summer reading program at our local library. We go to almost every homeschool event in our state. My kids go with me to the capitol, legislative interim meetings, homeschool meetings, etc. If we were any more socialized, I'd have to hire a secretary.

Hugs,

Cindy

No, I don't have a personal experience with it. But I do think that dating at 17 is important. Your teen years are very important in learning to socialize and learning to cope with things. From what you say, I assume you live in the city. Am I right? Well, I live in a town of less than 2,000 people. The grade school my kids are attending has grades Pre-Kindergarten through 7th grade and there is only about 110 kids in the whole school. The Pre-K class only had 12 students and the Kindergarten had 15. The teachers here are great. They take their time to make sure all the kids are learning. They make learning fun. And about strangers teaching my kids, these aren't strangers. Not only do they live in the community, but some of them taught me when I went there. The only strangers here are when people are passing through or when someone new moves to the community and even then they aren't strangers for long. Living in a small town is great. Everyone knows everyone. I know that my kids are getting a good education and that they have good teachers teaching them. Most of the teachers around here believe that if they have lost a childs attention in class, that it is their own fault because they aren't making it interesting enough. They don't believe that it is the kids fault.

For all of you that mentioned "pregnant at 16" and giving up alot. I have something to say...I was pregnant at 16, my son was born when I was 17. I was half way through my senior year when he was born. I went to school until 1 week before he was born, I was then home schooled, when he was 6 weeks old I went back to school. After high school I went to college. During my 1st year at college I got pregnant with my 2nd son, I took a semester off when he was due, then went back to college. I graduated from college and the only reason I'm not working now is because 2 weeks after my college graduation I was inside a building when a car came crashing through and hit me and drug me under the car. I am now unable to work. So you see, getting pregnant at 16 doesnt mean you HAVE to give up alot. If you don't want to give up on things you dont have to. And I didn't want to.

And my cousin I mentioned in a post before about her being home schooled and wishing she wasn't, she also was pregnant at 17, by a guy she met a church and later married. She is now unhappily married and 25. So even if you are homeschooled, there is still a chance you can get pregnant. Don't think that just because they don't attend public school it won't happen.

And by the way, you said you deal with my kind of "attitude" all the time. My "attitude" is that for some kids it works and some it doesn't/wouldn't. I'm not saying home schooling is wrong. It is fine for some. I was just pointing out my cousins point of view and the point of view that a 17 year old girl who is home schooled has.

In a small town like ours, the schools are great. The most trouble kids around here get into is a few teen pregnancies (most of them go on to college), some drug problems, and cutting trees down on Halloween. That's it. Nothing like it is in the city. My 12 year old brother lives in St. Pete, FL and the kids down there are completely different than the kids here. And so are the teachers and schools. So, as I said before, it just depends on the kids (and the teachers/schools)

Amanda

Edited by af_ely on 06/12/02 12:01 PM (server time).

Edited by af_ely on 06/12/02 12:11 PM (server time).

Hi Amanda. The last thing I wanted was for you to feel like you were under attack and I'm very, very sorry if it seemed so. Most homeschoolers have had to deal with a lot of negativity from friends, family and outsiders due to the "alternative" lifestyle they lead combined with a lack of understanding and your initial post did seem rather negative. You're perfectly right that homeschooling does not guarantee that our children will always be okay or have the best experiences. It's a highly individual subject and the child has to come first. I've seen schools that are great for the kids and have terrific teachers as well, but the majority are underfunded and understaffed which creates a very high rate of "burnout" among teachers. One of my very best friends is a 27 year old elementary school teacher who is homeschooling her two girls because she sees the constant frustration among teachers and lack of a well-rounded education that the schools in our area are providing. It sounds like you live in a terrific community, but we don't all have that advantage.

You're also very lucky that you had the ability to continue with school after you had your children. I didn't have the family support that would have enabled me to do that. I had to get a job to support my child. While working full-time days and attending night classes at the community college, I was able to receive my HSDiploma 6 months ahead of my class. I had to give up the full scholarship that I had earned to make way for an adult life (read: two jobs instead of one). I had been a 4.0 student and had learned how to "do school" very well. School hadn't prepared me at all for the real world.

Lastly, some people are just going to have problems regardless of their education. There are many other factors that have to be taken into consideration and I'm not a psychologist, so I won't even touch on those. Sometimes things just happen differently than we planned.




I really didn't expect to get such a wonderful response to this thread. OhHenry had pm'd me regarding homeschooling and I figured, "Okay, so maybe a couple of people will respond. It's worth a shot." Thanks, everyone for speaking up. I think we've given John a lot of food for fodder. He's got a lot of work ahead of him and I hope a lot of joy, too.