Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Antibiotics for Klebsiella?

My mom is dealing with a flair up of IBS. I believe she's my genetic line for HLA B27 but she's never had the test. Her doctor put her on two antibiotics to kick out the "bug" they thought she picked up travelling (Mexico). In my opinion, she had an overgrowth of Klebsiella.

Who knows if Flagyl or Cipro act on Klebsiella? She's feeling better but not 100% and I convinced her to go No Starch for a month just to let her gut heal. I am wondering if any of you know if either antibiotic she was on might have taken down the Klebsiella. Thank you.

Flagyl, 250 mg 3 x day, and Cipro, 500 mg 2 x day for ten days

Hello, Sashi:

Great news--BOTH Flagyl and Cipro are anti-Klebsiella agents and Your mom is on a good regimen--IF she doesn't eat starches! Regret the more we take these antibiotics while still eating starch, the greater the potential for selecting out resistive strains; antibiotic-resistant colonies can be re-established quite rapidly--within a year.

When I got 'Delhi belly' in India, it was Cipro helped bring me around and although still ignorant of NSD, it also eliminated my AS for a too short but blissful time.

My AP for AS is contained in my signature: Dropbox file on "Important AS Resources."

HEALTH to You each,
John

Hello Dragon,

can you please elaborate on this point please? Thanks

Hi, Eska:

You might have read that eating starches will cause proliferation of the germ Klebsiella pneumoniae, which is ancient, genetically diverse, hearty, ubiquitous, etc.

The purpose of the LSD/NSD is to modulate (change; downward in this case) the germ's substrate (our bodies). Antibiotics can accomplish this basic goal rapidly, but one of the many drawbacks of these drugs is that they can destroy "good" bacteria in addition to the bad ones and NOT kill ALL the bad ones, which will then procreate preferentially.

Gary Kinghorn, many years ago, found out the hard way that antibiotics alone are not the only solution to AS. He used Cipro and stomped on his AS to the point he began feeling great again even playing tennis and being physically active without our familiar pains. He did not pay any attention to diet and within a year his AS was "...back with a vengeance!"

Bacteriostatic agents are less likely to promote resistive colonies, but it is still best to lower--as much as possible--the initial bacterial loading, before administration of these antibiotics: Kick them when they are down!

It will take about FOUR DAYS to eliminate symptoms when antibiotics are administered during starch-free dieting, versus much longer (varies between one and two weeks) while still eating starches, based upon reports from those I have corresponded with able to try antibiotics.

HEALTH,
John (not a real Dragon, but I hope to out-devil the AS Demon)

Thanks John, I haven't really tired antibiotics yet, but i do remember having less pain when I was sick and taking amoxicillin I'm not sure if it was the reason but what do you think of amoxicillin? Can you list a good list of antibiotics to take while on a trip. I don't want to use antibiotics for rest of my life, but I do want to use them when am on a trip...thanks for the info btw.

Hello, Eska:

In my signature (Important AS Resources) there is an example of my own protocol. I did try amoxicillin (also several others, including minocycline) with zero relief--only later to find out that the germ is not affected by this agent alone, but only in combination with clavulanate.

The combination of antibiotics plus strictest NSD has given me the ability to do without antibiotics for several years now, and also become very starch-tolerant. I have not updated my Dropbox information; this is my current status (no antibiotics).

When traveling overseas, I sometimes take antibiotics prophylactically; usually tetracycline, but always have cipro at the ready.

I got very lucky when experimenting with inexpensive oral antibiotics, and just kept doing cycles: Therapeutic 11 days cipro 1g per day. Maintenance 6-10 weeks tetracycline 1250 to 1500mg per day (depending upon what dosage was available); up to 2500mg max for me).

Sometimes after about four or five of the 11 day cycles, I mixed in Flagyl at various dosages up to 3.5g/day. Sometimes with the tetracycline, I added Tanalbit, about 1g or two capsules. Today, when I do the very rare "cleansing" cycle, I take colloidal silver in addition (I make it by the gallon). Often, I would interrupt all antibiotics and replenish my gut flora with a healthy yoghurt, even "Yakult" when in Philippines.

After consulting with microbiologists and physicians, I developed the cycles above. I do not recommend that anyone begin any drug regimen without first doing sensitivity testing and consulting with their own physician(s).

Once, I found a "bad" batch of tetracycline, purchased in Mexico (manufactured by "Pharmacia," which is normally a very reliable company--just got a bad date code; it takes four or five days to tell and I kept out samples from known working date codes as controls.)

I have changed antibiotics at times, but always knew that the cipro and tetracycline were the best for this application. For a time I used cephalexin with almost decent results; I believe in keeping the bug-ers "guessing" (in addition to "kicking" them). Doxicycline was not as effective as tetracycline and it upset my stomach more even at reduced dosages.

Happy Trails, and
HEALTH,
John

John-- thank you so much for all that information. It confirmed my theory the antibiotics might have taken down Klebsiella in my mom, but you bring up a very real consideration that those [*bleep*] might become resistant. She's now trying a NSD but I wish I'd convinced her earlier!

Again- thank you. Your experience is invaluable.

Funny, for Klebsiella I used the word b u gg er s but it bleeped me!

LOL, Sashi:

I used the same word! That word, as a verb means something a bit salacious, especially in UK English.

HEALTH,
John