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#487961 04/26/13 11:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,336
Likes: 4
Bronze_AS_Kicker
OP Offline
Bronze_AS_Kicker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,336
Likes: 4
I have been discharged from the neurologist's care. I refused to be sent to the MS clinic in Wpg. My doctor is sending me to a neurologist in Winnipeg. There was no mention of any of the blood tests verifying this neurologist's diagnosis. There has to be or it cannot officially be declared MS. I challenged him and that was it. Not his patient any longer. lol

The neurologist's office took my bone spurs as signs of MS. They did not even look any closer. I told my regular doctor I will begin taking the LDN prescription he wrote for me. He also is sending me to a Rheumatologist to rule out AS. He wanted to know where does it hurt the most. I said my heel keeps aching and I have strong feelings to stretch my legs as if I was having growing pains. All night long, I can feel my legs aching and my knees hurting.

If, and only if, they rule out AS will I accept a diagnosis of MS.

I welcome your thoughts and opinions.


- Carpal Tunnel in BOTH hands
- Depression (MDD) Major Depressive Disorder
- Pituitary Adenoma
- Scoliosis
- Spinal Arthritis with bone spurs on spine
- Multiple Scoliosis diagnosed
- Herniating spinal disc
- HLAB27+
- Final diagnosis: Mild lumbar spondylosis

Previously told Mechanical Back 'Issues'. Hate this term!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 21,346
Likes: 2
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin
Offline
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 21,346
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Bone spurs = MS ?

I'm confused???? confused



sue

Spondyloarthropathy, HLAB27 negative
Humira (still methylprednisone for flares, just not as often. Aleve if needed, rarely.)
LDN/zanaflex/flector patches over SI/ice
vits C, D. probiotics. hyaluronic acid. CoQ, Mg, Ca, K.
chiro
walk, bike
no dairy (casein sensitivity), limited eggs, limited yeast (bread)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 18,187
Likes: 7
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin
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Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 18,187
Likes: 7
Yah, I'm confused too. Ah, honey, I'm sorry you're going through this. Good grief. hugss

Love and Warm Hugs,


Kat

A life lived in fear is a life half lived.
"Strictly Ballroom"

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,368
Bronze_AS_Kicker
Offline
Bronze_AS_Kicker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,368
Me too

Why would you have bone spurs with a Neurological disease like MS.


Janet

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,336
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Bronze_AS_Kicker
OP Offline
Bronze_AS_Kicker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,336
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That's what I do not understand. The so called 'lesions' on my spine are all located at the end of the disc, right at the corners. I think he (neuro) was so desperate for something, anything to make his diagnosis, he used the spurs as proof of MS. I wish I could show you my spinal MRI and you will see the corner lesions. They can't be missed.


- Carpal Tunnel in BOTH hands
- Depression (MDD) Major Depressive Disorder
- Pituitary Adenoma
- Scoliosis
- Spinal Arthritis with bone spurs on spine
- Multiple Scoliosis diagnosed
- Herniating spinal disc
- HLAB27+
- Final diagnosis: Mild lumbar spondylosis

Previously told Mechanical Back 'Issues'. Hate this term!
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,105
C
Major_AS_Kicker
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Major_AS_Kicker
C
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,105
Has he never heard of the "shiny corner sign", aka Romanus lesions or Modic lesions? Its classic for inflammation from AS. You need a good rheumatologist to look at those MRIs.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,968
Pea Offline
Captain_AS_Kicker
Offline
Captain_AS_Kicker
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,968
I agree, it sounds like romanus lesions to me. Maybe some of the MS folks on here will chime in. I am so sorry you have to go through this Magician.


Pea
Diagnosed with A.S. 29 year's ago.
Diagnosed with Fibro 10 year's ago.
Remicade, Intrathecal Pain Pump 2013
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,336
Likes: 4
Bronze_AS_Kicker
OP Offline
Bronze_AS_Kicker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,336
Likes: 4
I am being sent to a very good Rheumatologist. Hoping he will be the missing part to all of this constant back pain.


- Carpal Tunnel in BOTH hands
- Depression (MDD) Major Depressive Disorder
- Pituitary Adenoma
- Scoliosis
- Spinal Arthritis with bone spurs on spine
- Multiple Scoliosis diagnosed
- Herniating spinal disc
- HLAB27+
- Final diagnosis: Mild lumbar spondylosis

Previously told Mechanical Back 'Issues'. Hate this term!
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,336
Likes: 4
Bronze_AS_Kicker
OP Offline
Bronze_AS_Kicker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,336
Likes: 4
I am dumbfounded that a radiologist thought they were MS lesions. How could he not see that?

I am also very puzzled why the 'rheumatologist' I originally saw prescribed Arthrotec for my back pain instead of pushing Tylenol on me? A good friend still says I walk like someone in a lot of pain.

Later on I discovered this doctor was not an actual Rheumatologist but was able to treat patients with diseases of inflammation. I was angry I had been misled.

I have MR corner signs. Wish I could send you pictures of my MRI scan which clearly show them.

There were 11 RBC Count in the Spinal tap along with ESR of 12 (normal). It says the majority of cells seen are Lymphocytes with occasional monocytes and a few neutrophils.

For the Monoclonal Immunoglobulin Serum Comment:
Pattern suggests a polyclonal immunoglobulin increase.
I do not know what this one even means?

CSF Protein of 0.41. Reference range: 0.20-0.40

So because I have 0.01 too much, it means definite MS? I don't think so and that is probably why he got angry when I questioned him.

Still think this is MS? Because I sure do not.

Last edited by Magician; 04/29/13 03:06 AM.

- Carpal Tunnel in BOTH hands
- Depression (MDD) Major Depressive Disorder
- Pituitary Adenoma
- Scoliosis
- Spinal Arthritis with bone spurs on spine
- Multiple Scoliosis diagnosed
- Herniating spinal disc
- HLAB27+
- Final diagnosis: Mild lumbar spondylosis

Previously told Mechanical Back 'Issues'. Hate this term!
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 501
G
Veteran_AS_Kicker
Offline
Veteran_AS_Kicker
G
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 501
Found this article interesting

http://www.med.uottawa.ca/procedures/lp/e_interpretation.htm

"Examine the CSF collected using a bright white light source for general appearance. It is best to hold the second tube against a white paper background so as to detect any subtle color changes. Normal CSF should be crystal clear and colourless.

Examine the CSF fluid for a blood-tinged appearance. Blood may be present for a number of reasons, including SAH. A "traumatic tap" occurs if the needle inadvertently has entered an epidural vein during insertion.

A yellowish tinge to the CSF fluid is called xanthochromia. Xanthochromia is usually caused by red blood cell degeneration in the CSF as would be seen in subarachnoid hemorrhage (SAH). The breakdown of red blood cells takes many hours to occur. Xanthochromia would be reliably seen by 12 hours and can persist for up to 2 weeks [this assumes that Vermulen1 was correct. His paper is a case series of patients with known SAH, not undifferentiated headache patients. The detection of xanthochromia in this study employed spectrophotometry.] Other causes of xanthochromia include systemic jaundice and conditions causing elevated CSF protein.

1 Vermeulen M, Hasan D, Blijenberg BG, Hijdra A, van Gijn J. Xanthochromia after subarachnoid haemorrhage needs no revisitation. J Neurology, Neurosurgery and Psychiatry 1989; 52:826-828.

It has been reported that detecting and quantifying xanthochromia may be more accurate using a spectrophotometer. Currently the availability of this testing method is limited in North America. The overall sensitivity and specificity of the technique are not currently known in the patient with an undifferentiated headache.

Use a standard laboratory reference to interpret the results of the CSF fluid analysis. Emergency physicians may need to seek consultation with an appropriate specialty service.

The following are general principles:
In subarachnoid hemorrhage:

Normal Erythrocytes: <10 X 10 6/L *Presence of more than a few RBCs may indicate cerebral or subarachnoid hemorrhage or traumatic tap.
Subarachnoid hemorrhage (SAH) Xanthochromia may be present (see above in this section).Red cells are present after SAH and may be present after trauma, or with haemorrhagic inflammation (e.g. HSV encephalitis from Herpes Simplex Virus). If there is blood, determine if there is more blood in tube 1 than in tube 4. Typically RBC counts are comparatively higher in tube 1 than in tube 4 in a traumatic tap and roughly equal in SAH.
*Laboratory Information Handbook 2002, The Ottawa Hospital
In meningitis:
Turbidity or cloudiness can be seen when the white blood cell count (WBC) of the CSF is elevated. A high WBC indicates that there is inflammation of the central nervous system, as in meningitis for example.


WBC in CSF
Glucose in CSF
Protein in CSF
Normal Expected value
Leukocytes
(mononuclear):
adult:
0-10 X 10 6/L*
neonates:
0-30 X10 6/L*
Ref Interval:
2.7 -4.4 mmol/L (~0.6 _ serum conc)*

Ref Interval:
0.12-0.60 g/L Conversion factor:
mg/L X 0.001 = g/L*
Bacterial meningitis elevated predominantly neutrophils May be low May be high
Viral meningitis elevatedpredominantly lymphocytes neutophils may be seen early Usually normal
A traumatic tap may result in blood in the CSF. There should only be 1 white cell to every 700 red cells. A higher ratio indicates the possibility of meningitis. A brief course (less than 2 days) of antibiotic therapy is unlikely to affect the CSF cell count, protein or glucose levels but does reduce the probability of seeing bacteria with a Gram stain or of isolating an organism from cultures.In TB or fungal meningitis, mostly lymphocytes or monocytes are seen.

Low CSF glucose levels, as compared to plasma levels, are seen in bacterial meningitis, cryptococcal meningitis, malignant involvement of the meninges and sarcoidosis. High CSF protein levels are seen:

in conditions in which there is pus or blood in the CSF,
with meningeal inflammation (e.g. purulent or tuberculous meningitis),with increased blood-brain vascular permeability (e.g. encephalitis, Guillain-Barré syndro
me)
,
with local immunoglobulin production (e.g. multiple sclerosis),
where CSF circulation is impeded (e.g. spinal tumour).

Hope you get answers soon.

Gerri & Makaylah

Last edited by New Beginnings; 04/29/13 09:51 AM.

KickAS member since 04/22/06
Psoriasis(72), AS(2006), PsA with Spondylitis(2011),Vitiligo (69), sleep apnea (2004), Bronchial Asthma, many allergies, anaphylaxis allergy to sulfites, diabetic, Vitamin D deficient - Celiac/fructose intolerance/malabsorption - many co-morbidities
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