Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; NSD Intro Diet

The last week I eat normal and often products with starch.
Its the second week without pain in my sacroiliac.
I only have pain and stiffness in my neck. Is this also a sign from AS?

That can not be normal that I can eat starch and only after a few weeks I get the pain.

I hope this is not a sign that the NSD doesnt work for me

Hello, Boxer:

Understand some things about the stimulus-response connection regarding the highly dynamic intestinal environment: We can each take in some starchy meals at random times and not flare; this is normal and explains why the connection is not believed by so many people!

It can take a very long time to eliminate symptoms through diet, and it will--probabilities working the way they do--not likely be the first starchy meal You eat to flare You. Self-study takes patience and a keen investigative sense that most people cannot do with enough dispassion to tough it out: You are no different than so many others who come here and did not want to do the diet in the first place. One noteworthy fellow stuck to the diet "most" of the time--but he was not going to give up his gourmet popcorn on Saturday nights! At least he finally admitted he could not do the diet, and was honest about it!

I am skeptical of those who expect immediate results, not even thinking that 'natural' ways did not get us sick overnight--AS was 'seething' for at least two years before we really begin to notice it.

I am skeptical of people who come here thinking they can pay their dues to the NSD and expect to get some kind of cosmic pass if we bend and tell You about this diet "oh, poor thing--You TRIED...guess it just did not work for You!"

Regret I will not be in this particular choir; I do not believe that diet will not work for even a small group. However, I do know and have observed that some people cannot get the diet to work for them, but there is usually a good reason--one someone found out--was Hg levels (and amalgam in the mouth has been shown to 'harden' gut bacteria in primates).

Chances are close to zero that You would be in that very tiny group, so I encourage You to stick with it long enough: When we are not here and the physicians are silent, and it is just You, alone with Your AS--You have only Your own strength and can rely only upon Your own choices; nobody can do it for You. Although we have done it--we have overcome AS and then had the round-trip ticket back, thanks to starches. Eventually, we get it--eventually we catch the reaction and repeat the experiment enough to finally get it.

I had iritis and risked losing my eyesight. Am I going to fast for 11 days to see what happens? How about 20 days? I have done this and enjoyed remission from iritis and all AS symptoms--even especially hip bursitis. And I have combined antibiotics--as the acid test for Ebringer's "theory"--and I found out by combining the diet with these agents, in only a very characteristic four days--that there would be no turning back; no more symptoms! Eventually total remission and gut healed enough to consume starches: The KEY is knowing what to do when symptoms return.

So this is what You are in for--if Your AS is bad enough, maybe You can make this diet work for You. Otherwise just remember what we have said and You will always be welcome back here after listening to the naysayers and physicians and trying the standard regimens. There is nothing at all wrong with finding relief using certain drugs (the biologics and SSZ for some); many spondys maintain this way for many years.

I know the doubts You have; we have all experienced them and have some impatience--that impatience drove me to combine strict diet with antibiotics, as I said! Nothing wrong with experimentation--perhaps You will find something that works for You and I hope You will share it with us!

HEALTH,
John

Thank you for kicking my [*bleep*] John

On monday I will kick my AS with the NSD so strict like no one other!
Maybe it works and maybe it doesnt work.
But when it doesnt work, the problem is certainly myself, that I doesnt make the diet strict enough.

Best Regards from snowy Vienna/Austria!

Hello, Dominik:


I am sorry if this is what You got from my rant:


That is not exactly what I meant, so I'm sorry if I did not express myself more clearly; it is sometimes an emotional issue when other spondys could potentially be helped by this regimen but have been brainwashed that "it doesn't work for everyone."

First, we should be eating an 'alkalizing and more laxative' diet. This implies less meats and sweets and more vegetables, nuts, and fruits.

Fatty meats are not very good for our tracts, more fish and fowl would be best. Cheese that is aged and used as a condiment is better than soft cheeses used as a primary ingredient.

Next, strict elimination of starches is very difficult, but will help heal the tract so improvement sometimes means that we will not as easily react to starches. When I began this regimen, I got myself into flare conditions often due to 'stealthy' starches like salad dressings with starch thickeners, and stuff like protein powder with 'soya isolate' as a primary ingredient. I was eliminating the obvious sources--bread, cake, pasta, and potatoes, but even a small amount of starch in very tiny capsules, for example, caused a flare.

Finally, I encourage supplementation: Short-term for immediate relief of symptoms (EFAs and GLAs), but also for long-term, tissue rebuilding like Pauling's vitC/E/niacin-niacinamide/lysine and we need much in addition to this, taken with care because so many pills contain starch. It is hard to blame manufacturers and food adulterers; most people eat starch in considerable quantities, so a little more should seem 'inert,' but the truth is very far from that for those of us who react to these starches--and not just gluten.

If the strictest NSD does not work after a year it does not necessarily mean You have not tried hard enough--there could be some other factor from mercury load to actually not having AS in the first place. What are the chances such elimination of starches will not work if You have AS? 3%? 5%--I don't know exactly, but over 30% of us just do not have the patience to do this right and it is difficult to blame them--as one who did this diet assiduously, I can attest that it is the most inconvenient diet possible. I just hate to give up on people or have them give up because AS ruined my life more than once--and I hate this damn disease! And the NSAIDs really messed up my tract and increased disease activity--kicked it into high-gear or activity. And it took many years of aggressive supplementation, antibiotics, and strict diet, to heal my tract enough that starches no longer have much effect.

If I could tell any fellow spondy how to get there sooner than I did, I would; it is unpleasant to have this news about diet--something so integral in our lives...we miss 'pizza night' and popcorn at the movies and normal 'breaking bread' with others and oh the people we offend by not eating their apple pie or whatever! So diet is bad news and hard to blame doctors who have no experience and hard to blame fellow spondys for hoping it 'does not work for them!' But as a former vegetarian, I had this damn disease and nobody there to tell me what to do--what worked for them. When I heard about Ebringer's work, the pieces fell into place immediately and it all became quite clear--previous experiences and so much else--other writings other people who also found the starch connection but the disease was called "Marie--Strumpell's" then and they did not cal their regimen 'low starch,' although it was--but it worked and way back in the 1970s when I could have been helped.

The fasting experience (not good to lose weight this way), really is the strictest diet and it does work in 'almost' every case--so we can prove to ourselves that AS must have something to do with digestion and in this case we know the exact type of food involved.

Additionally, if doing strict NSD and it does not (seem to) work, my recommendation is not just walking away, but to get hold of the Road Back Foundation and find a local rheumatologist willing to prescribe antibiotics; this approach--this combination of therapies--worked so well for me and I am convinced that it is the way AS will be treated in the very near future; best not to wait for it to become the standard of treatment, however.

I don't think I am wasting my time on You--and sorry if I am rough sometimes, but this is a cruel regimen and so many other spondys have failed to stick it out and achieve the relief that is possible and they deserved, but the NSD gets a black eye every time! And that is frustrating.

I hope You achieve renewed HEALTH--more than You ever anticipated through Your own efforts,
John

Way to go, John. Brings me back to when I first found my way here. : ) I appreciate your time, effort and energy.

Hello John.
I have been on NSD since June, with so,e good results, by now i know it works. The thing is i cant eat fruit, eggs, and cheese. What i eat all day long is fish/ broccoli/green veggies. The diet is very boring. Do you think things can get better with the diet(meaning more options).And if yes how. Why do you think i react to fruit ?
Thanks,
BMAN

Hey, BMAN:

Very encouraged You have had such good results on NSD. Seems like You have multiple issues--perhaps candidiasis causes fruits to be a problem. Normally, sugars are absorbed in the stomach and never make it past first couple of feet of small intestine. With fruits, however, the sugar is somewhat released too gradually. I believe that so many of us have enough 'dysbiosis' that the bacterial colonies actually invade into the small intestine, even to the jejunum. So the germ really loves sugars more than starches, and it can get a head start if the sugar is available.

And for the longer term, candidiasis increases gut permeability, so will increase AS activity, but usually not within the flare period of normal starches.

In regards to the boring diet--there should be many more options for You: Nuts, tofu, jello, chicken and chicken/turkey hot dogs even with sauerkraut--Indian pickle like okra or citron; very spicy there. I sometimes get chocolate morsels--dark, and mix with raisins and raw almonds for a kind of 'party GORP.' This also works with walnuts and dried cranberries, even contrast like pepitas (dried pumpkin seeds) and green olives with pimento. Olives especially Kalamata are also great alone. Even mix almond butter with peanut butter (I used a ratio of about 2 almond to 1 peanut); it just tastes better than almond butter alone and this can go on celery stalks. Found canned baby corn is not starchy enough for me to react to. Pistachios also great, halvah (there is pistachio halvah, so the connection...), and don't forget either borscht or homemade soups. Macadamia nuts, and maybe someone has a recipe (Andrea?) for almond milk icecream...Hmmmm that would be great right about now...(HOT here in Philippines...).

And don't be too afraid to experiment with foods that are 'borderline;' if something goes wrong it is a short time to get back on track, since You have been at this for so long.

But if things really are not changing enough or fast enough, it might be a good idea to do a cleansing for the fungus before finding someone from Road Back Foundation to help with antibiotics, that is if things remain so restrictive. If You did not take NSAIDs--rather--for very long--You might heal rapidly with proper supplementation, and become less sensitive to starches and milk products.

Well, see what You think and just keep close track of how You react to each 'new' food.

HEALTH,
John

Thanks, Jan:

You have been the bright spot of encouragement--not just for me but I'm sure we write for so many who remain silent!

Sorry to take over Your original post--but You know how that goes! I think we do need some kind of better 'quick start' guide, but every time we try and write stuff by committee it just never gets done! Have down time now in Philippines, so will give this more thought.


HEALTH,
John

Thanks, John!
Yeah, I just responded SO well to the SCD 'intro' both before I found kickas and just recently when my stomach got so upset. Just an alternative for people with hypoglycemia who cannot fast or do an apple fast. I'm so glad you are part of this growing conversation, you did not take over at all, and even if you ever wanted to you'd be welcome to do so!

Hi again, and sorry aswell for breaking this post...
About the candidas...what would u sugget i take besides the diet? I never took nsaids. What kills the candida??