Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion #1 AS Web Support Group Is depression/anxiety a symptom of AS?

This depression/anxiety thing is a weird thing, a really weird thing

For 20 years I have been seeing shrinks, doctors, therapists of every persuasion, describing my flares and telling them how when I eat certain carbohydrates they are triggered

Each had their own version of what this could be but one thing they were all certain of was that this was psychological, either anxiety or depression

They told me to take this mind altering medication or that mind altering medication or try this psychotherapy or that psychological therapy. None worked, all made me more poorly, but the fact that all this 'therapy stuff' was what was actually making me mentally ill was never considered. I just kept being told that I needed to have happy thoughts etc

When I asked what would happen if I just stopped eating these foods they wrote down I may be anorexic (even though I was 222lb) and wrote that maybe I was bulimic etc. None of them would accept my version that when I eat these carbohydrates they are doing my back in, can I not eat them?

No, no no no no no, you cannot do that, they would tell me, carbohydrates are a staplem they are essencial for health if you do not eat them you will get cholestrol, maybe die. Not eating the carbohydrates I mentioned could be dangerous, lead to death I was told and so for 20 years against what my inner self was telling me I arried on eating the poison that was destroying me

Even over the last 5 years whilst I have been cutting them out I still ensured I had the 'minimum' amount for survivial Drrrrrrrrrr

Anyway since being here all the carbohydrates that I believe are damamging my body have been eliminated, and that is not just starch and lactose in my case

I have at least two other pathogens that require limited carbohydrate intake to ensure they are controlled that are in addition to this pathogen doing my back in

Since removing all the carbohydrate foods I know are doing me harm I have had no flares, not one. I have had no flares in 8 weeks, not one. And therefore by definition, no deprssion/anxiety either

I have told my doctor that I want it written on my records that under no circumstances must I ever be given antidepressants ever again and that in my opinion it is antidepressants that induce the deep weird, uncontrolable feeling I get when I cannot cope and that the so called depression all those medications they have been giving me never was depression in the first place, it was flares from a reactive form of arthritis

I am no longer going to go into these doctors offices again and try to prove I am mentally feeble. From now on it is their job to prove these flares and other symptoms I experience are not physical and not related to my carbohydrate intake

I have told them this. I have told them that if they believe I am a depressive person and that these flares are being caused by the way I think and not by starch/lactose and other carbohydrate foods then I want the journals and other evidence they have

Since putting this proposal to them I have had a gene test, blood tests, a x-ray of my sacroiliacs turn up and an offer of a new Rhumatologist

There are so many other folk I know that are living in these same traps, going around and around with therapist which frankly do not have clue what they are talking about

But, and this is the big but for me, although most shrinks are useless in my eyes, there are a handful that are very very good

It was a therapist that told me to stop listening to the doctors and eliminate them carbohydrates. she told me nutrition would help me get well and she supported me when no doctors would.

she taught me about the nutritional value of foods and she showed me evidecne about how certain carbohydrates can unbalance the brain and body

I studied work relating to autism, ADHD, Parkinson's, MS, Candida, Fibromalgia, diabetes and many other illnesses.

Although I never studied any form of arthritis. I had been told by the doctors this thing I describe cannot be Arthiritis because folk with Fibro do not get arthritis, yeah yeah. Anyway I did not study AS or any other form of Arthritis because i believed I definately did not have an arthritis. I learned all about this other stuff and realised that if I did cut back, right back on the foods that were poisoning me and replace them with certain foods, healing foods, I might start recovering from what they shrinks were telling me was my deep inner insecurity that I was in denial about YEAH YEAH

Anyway, I worked on this night and day for five years and when I came here just a couple of months ago I had almost worked it out. My starch was down to 20g

Anyway, since then it has been at nothing, no starch whatsoever, along with all the other foods I had already eliminated and now I have no flares or as the shrinks call it, depression/anxiety that creats pain in my body because I cannot deal with feelings
ARhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

If this is psychological and I am causing this myself by my thinking then how is it I have an injury to my sacroiliac joints. What is the limp about and the IBS. I can not be in a right argument and it does not get triggered but one teaspoon of starch and its a sure thing

I am not having a go at you Finnari, because I know you are not daft enough to do all this what these doctors have done with me but honestly, a gaunt face with sad eyes and muddled thinking is not just about feelings and thoughts there can be something serious going on.

And I cannot argue with you regarding the yoga, meditationa nd all that stuff because it does help, even with the flares, but finding the cause, in my case the starch, was and still is the beginning of me getting well and I can now say sort my records out and get rid of all that junk you say about me because it is not true. But they are not going to get rid of all that junk now are they. They are going to be keeping all that on my records. And next when I loose my temper they will be telling me I need anger management

Listen, I am just expressing my thoughts here. It is not you personally. but you know that. You are a good bloke and I know your comments are ment to be helpful in the kindest way. You are not a synical type, you are a genuine person, and I know that, so please don't take anything I say here personal to you because it is not you that has driven me crazy. It's folk that have read a few psychology books and think they know what they clearly do not know.

Don't hate me for posting this I just want you to know how this can all go wrong

Love Joanne

I'm curious how yoga works with exhaustion. Do you feel more energy after you do yoga? I feel relaxed and happy after swimming, and relaxed and peaceful after tai chi.

Depression can be as chemical in nature as schizophrenia is (in addition to a rainbow of mental health issues), no one ever told a schizophrenic "hey just stop listening to voices" and had that work out for them.

I've just read through this whole thread again, and some things are just making so much more sense now to me. Thanks Dow, Mig, Kat, particularly, for your comments. That whole discussion on neural pathways makes a lot of sense, and the biochemical bits, but also that there is stuff that you can do yourself that will a significant difference. I think I am starting to realise that. Just recently I got to the point where I just have not been coping with pain and wanting more and more pain relief but not liking the drugged doped feelings from it. Just for the moment, things have changed again for me. I'm still in a lot of pain, but all up I guess my levels have dropped a point a so, (from 6 or 7 down to 4-6)and some of that has come from getting rid of a little bit of the fear of pain stopping me from doing my job that I am sure was winding up my actual pain levels.

Exactly!

How many people here have been told that their pain is all in their heads? Hello!

i am not saying that thinking nice thoughts will drive away that black cloud. wish it were so.

it isn't easy; but somewhere, sometime, somehow you got to learn how to talk back to that little voice in your head. sometimes that oh so silly talking to someone helps- a professional.

that 'what you are' thingee is indeed a product of the where ya been and what ya done stuff...BUT that 'what you are' thingee isn't the definition of 'who you are'...you're beautiful, you're stardust, you're golden...ya'll made some stupid mistakes, may make some more. it's ok. hindsight is always in better perspective, but you're here now not there then. you didn't do this; it's not you're fault; you're ok.

and there are time you have be scarlett, 'i won't think of that today; i'll think about that tomorrow.'

Since my diagnosis last year(RA) all my spare time goes to reading about RA, AS and rheumatic dideases. When I watched vimeo video of Dr.Brown who treated over 10,000 arthritics in his lifetime and he remarks in his video interview how depression plays a part in the arthritc and as the patient heals the depression and anemia lift. It made me want to grab him through the screen and give him a big hug. It nice when a rheumatologist knows their patients so well & understands them. Wish he were alive so I could have an appt. with him.
Heres the video if anyone wants to see it, ther is mention of depression in the first part if I'm correct. Not trying to push his protocol, it's sort of nice when you finally feel as if someone gets where your coming from and puts into words what I've tried to explain to family about my condition, body and mind.

www.vimeo.com/3154687

If the link doesn't work you can type it into google and works that way.

I agree with Ben!

And add to it that if we characterize our thoughts as "good" or "bad" we miss the point, there is a huge paradox here, I believe that it is virtually impossible to change the course of the electrons already launched and fired and currently traveling in our brains at light speed...

Try it, think of a different thought than the one that you are having, oops too late!

Now think of a different thought, oops too late again!

Now whatever you do, do NOT think about spiders!! With their little hairy legs crawling up over your left kneecap at this very moment, and those tiny pincers getting ready to take a chomp any second now...

Next, now try to NOT think about snowflakes

I have managed to overcome my depression, if that is what I had. But only by sorting out my diet. Now that I do not eat anything that can trigger my symptoms I never have obsessional thoughts and I never get down in the dumps but if I end up eating just one thing by mistake, not only are all my symptoms triggered so is that terrible stuff in my head triggered

The terrible stuff in my head, is always about how everything is my fault and if only I did this and if only I did that. for the whole time that my IBS is triggered and I am flaring these thoughts yack on and on but as soon as the flares are over I, my happy self emerges, I never make this thing stop, I never make myself get happy. I am simply a happy person when I am not flaring but when I am I struggle with everything, lifting grasping, walking etc and I cannot get my head to be anything like my normal self

But what I do do nowadays, no matter what is going on, if I am poorly I look after myself, kind of like I am a loving aunt. I let all the obsessive stuff get on with itself but I talk to myself with the kindest voice I can and do things as kindly as I can for myself

Perhaps it is this that you are talking about, when you say have good thoughts. I do do everything I can to have good thoughts. I play lovely music and garden and watch fun film, comedy etc, and pray and meditate, but this chemical reaction thing is very very strong, it overwhelms my body and my brain. I am just not myself at all for those days.

I am lucky that I have learned how to deal with this without medication, and again I think it is these things you are refering to. So I am not against anything what folk are saying here. And because I know you all suffer in a similar way, maybe not with this obsessional thinking but with ill health, and I knwo you are all on my side, you are not playing mind games or anything like that, I can listen and I can appreciate what you are all saying because I know it is all said with kindness. But depression itself is not just about being a negative person. It can occur simply, in my case at least, just becasue of something I have eaten

I am extremely lucky, I have actually worked out every single thing that can make me ill, every single thing. And this was made so much easier when I came here when you all told me about the starch lactose and sucrose. Since being here I have made the last few adjustments I needed to and now I am not flaring at all

This is the first time in 20 years that i have not had at least one flare in one week. I think I have been here about 9 weeks now and I have still not had a flare and I have not been depressed either LOL

Not only not depressed, I have actually had a few arguments (this is proper rare for me, I normally avoid arguements, because they make me flare) but Ihave had arguments and not flared

I am not saying I want to argue now, I still do not really want to be arguing with folk, but now I know arguements will not leave me disabled I can argue.

For years I ahve been told my need for no arguements is a sign I am insecure. But now I am willing to argue it seems I am no longer insecure LOL

Do you kind of see what I am saying here?

A person who is very poorly with depression today, could find out tomorrow something is triggering that depression, remove it and suddenly become well.

My husbands brother has just found out his illness is being caused by electromagnetism but now he has removed everything electrical out of his house he is much better

I have seen this same thing with chemical and weather changes and tonnes of other stuff

I am not making excuses for folkthat moan a lot. I cannot stand being around depressed folk any more than anybody else, but it is not just about being happy and positive in some cases it is wise to consider other kinds of triggers

But I am going to contradict myself once more here, because youare right about learning some skills and changing your routine so that when you are poorly with depression you can be kind to yourself

Love and stuff

Joanne