Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion #1 AS Web Support Group FASTING

hey, i checked out your you-tube videos. the post of you talking is good - i didnt go much on the budgies post sorry.

Hi Jet,
Actually, I'm relieved to hear that it's now part of the past. I wasn't upset/angry in my reply to dragonslayer, I was just getting an opinion of mine in... It's not often I want participate in major disagreements. I don't mind people dieting and working really hard at it, but those were extremes being mentioned and even caused fatality. I don't want to see people get hurt because of something they read on the net and that was the reason for my opinion/sarcasm. I left a little extra sarcasm at the end to hint to him that some of what he said before about 'not having careers' offended me, I shouldn't have to come out and say it. I can't even get a job truthfully.

Oh, I see you saw my video too. I'm glad you got to see it. I'm going to be updating a sequel(sp?) which will have a bit of a happier side to it (because I have made some progress).
Thanks for watching the video all the way through, I can't even look at it anymore because that was in a bad time of my life.

Take care,
James

James, i just want to make it clear what i meant in the previous post. i meant, could "everyone" stop arguing - not specifically just you. I dont have a career anymore either because of AS, i was a carpenter in the Army. Nowdays i dont even have a nail gun.
it would be cool if you posted some more stuff on you tube.
when i started the NSD, i didnt even fast at the start properly, i drank soda water with frozen lime cubes for a day and then started adding some frozen blueberries...before too long my glass had more food than liquid in it. personally the only time i truly fasted was before my knee operation, and that was because the surgeon instructed me to do so.
Peace & Respect
Darryn

Hey Chris,

I'm sorry you are tired and in pain all the time and now UPSET into the bargain...maybe it might be better for your health to take a little break from your drive to uncover the "hidden truth" as I really am concerned that all you are getting out of your quest is elevated blood pressure and greater stress - and we all know that stress can compromise the immune system - DEFINITELY not good for somebody whose health is already compromised.

I am also concerned that more feathers than we may ever know have been seriously ruffled and your persistent efforts to cause angst may cause others to rat you out as a troll, which I am sure was not your intention.

Feisty arguments are one thing, but being disrespectful to administrators (who work countless hours for FREE)is something else altogether. Ordinary members do not want the personal agendas of a few to disrupt an otherwise fabulous support network.

I wish you a calmer week ahead,

Louise

It's been months since I've checked in and as luck would have it, I stumbled across this heated exchange. Apologies if I'm reigniting the flames, but what I've read evoked such strong feelings and I feel compelled to provide my two cents.

Prior to being diagnosed with spondy, I was diametrically opposed to joining forums because virtually every forum has a certain level of friction which is quite unpleasant. I ended up coming to KA every day because unlike another spondy forum that I encountered, I felt this one provided a more diverse set of opinions and information. IMO, the importance of having a wide spectrum of views and experiences to draw from is invaluable and the admins are to be applauded to support that.

When I encountering John's posts for the first time, I was not rubbed the wrong way. Occasionally, I felt he spoke in too authoritative manner, but chalked it up to a unique writing style. I do not agree with everything John posts even though I am very strict in adhering to a no starch diet. But I will also add that I am always interested in reading his posts because they provide a unique view. Regardless of whether we're reading something on KA or anything else on the web, one needs to apply some sense of judgment to filter out whatever is appropriate for that individual.

I think its interesting to read that people feel that this site has become a platform for the NSD. Last year when I visited the site daily, I felt that the NSD-ers were in the minority. The purpose of the previous two observations is to not imply any sense of good or bad, but rather illustrate the notion that those types of observations can be highly subjective to the individual.

I don't know what the facts are regarding the threat of potential litigation, but I would be truly saddened to learn if that is true. If we were required to boil down posts, both in content and style, to a common denominator that would accepted by everyone, this site would not only lose a tremendous amount of value, but would be pretty dull to visit. I will go one step further and say brandishing the threat of litigation is a despicable and cowardly tool to use in a heated argument. I apologize for using such strong words, but I am absolutely appalled at the idea of potential litigation.

In my eyes, John is an ambassador the NSD, and to a lesser extent, a more holistic approach to managing spondy. While it can be very easy to vilify him if you do not like his approach, I feel it's important to step back and see that he has made a substantial impact to many people, myself included. While it isn't for everyone, numerous people have benefited from the NSD. Some people benefit so much from the NSD, they stop coming to KA because they finally have a tool that allows them to manage the disease very effectively. John's constant presence in KA allows the potential benefit of the NSD to be a possibility for future visitors of KA. To the extent that John's efforts to champion the NSD helped others, that's a pretty amazing accomplishment.

While this doesn't give John a license to write in an inflammatory style, before anybody pounces at how they can't stand how he writes, please note that not everyone feels that way, and he has made a positive impact to others. Because of that maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt and cut him a little more slack even if it seems as if he is asking for it. On the other side of the boat, if John wanted to be an even more effective ambassador to the NSD, tweaks to his delivery style may help his cause tremendously. Bottom line is that when there is intense conflict, both sides have a responsibility to address the issue – one side needs to be more tolerant even if they can't stand the other perspective and the other needs to be more sensitive even if they feel the other party is being unreasonably sensitive. It absolutely has to go both ways.

Last point, John, please, please, please continue championing the NSD cause. While everyone may not benefit from it, it has made a tremendous impact on others and your efforts are truly appreciated by them.

OK, enough of my monologue. My sincere apologies if my words rekindled any angst and negativity. I didn't have time to study the minutia of every post in this thread, so apologies if I mis-characterized anything. I can't express how much these little civil wars break my heart.

Best to all,

Freddie

Actually Freddie I think that was a very good post. Well said indeed.

I think the book idea just really stirred up the simmering pot on long held differences of opinion and very different experiences with AS. Mix in a few very strong personalities and wooohooo fireworks.

It happens. The key is how we move on and survive the occasional "intense" discussion. It is very important to understand when posting the very different experiences in treatment approaches, with both success and failure, we bring to the board with AS.

Hi All,
I would like to retract the sarcasm I used in my post. After talking with someone privately I can see I went overboard with my choice of words.

I do feel fasting for such great lengths could do more harm than good though, and that would depend on the individual's health or current treatment. For instance... someone on nsaids would need something in their stomach to protect it from the side effects nsaids... and someone prone to deficiency would need to know what they are getting into.

I personally use my own form food avoidance, where I don't eat it if I don't want it. Yesterday I was offered coffeecake and declined it. I would rather do without than suffer the consequences, even if I am already hungry. I have gone as long as a day and a half doing this, which isn't very long to most people, but I do it frequently. During a flare I sometimes stop eating for 24 hours and will be able to reduce the intensity of the flare.

Take care,
James.

freddie,

so good to see you again.

hey don't be a stranger!

Thanks for posting that info John.

I'm blown away by the response!

I personally am not interested in lsd, nsd or fasting, so I just skimmed over your post to see if there was anything of interest.

Normally I wouldn't even respond to your post as I have nothing of interest to contribute - however I was gobsmacked at the turmoil it has created.

Personally, I don't care who owns Kickas (there goes the dejavu again - see my other post).

I also don't care what anyone else posts - as long as it isn't defammatory or offensive (then off course I want to read it!!! ).

Kickaa has provided me with so much information, friends and advice and has never asked for anything in return.

Nothing is shoved in my face, I haven't received email spam since joining and membership is completely voluntary.

There is a donation button - but that is purely optional and tucked away almost out of sight.

So basically this is a free service.

If you find that throwing a haddock over your left shoulder every morning helps, then fine, post about it. I don't care.

I also noticed that permission was going to be sought for any posts to be included in the kickas book.

To me this is just another act of goodwill on the part of KickAS. I'm sure that as we've posted into the KickAS database, technically the data belongs to them now (please don't argue about this - you have to admit it is still good for kickas to ask first).

So for my 2 cents worth, I'm not going anywhere - I like it here!

James

Hi John, Kiwi, Kat and Mig,

Its difficult for me to take cognizance of everything that was discussed in this very long post and put all points of view in perspective....

To me, the first post by John was harmless and with good intentions. I too joined this site looking for information and not exposed to the concepts of fasting and NSD as useful for AS. John has always been a source of very good insightful information and I, for one, read his posts with relish and never feel talked down upon. Kiwi is another poster who has proved how this diet does work for some.

I could never follow NSD / fasting to the hilt, but I believe they work for ME, when done with some discipline and detailing. It also resonates with the ancient principles of ayurveda and naturopathy. I do not care who owns the website, but for me, the website is also a lot more than NSD....

My message to John, Kiwi, and others is not to feel discouraged by the such discussions and keep contributing to this wonderful forum. Your contribution means a lot to me and this forum....

Its an online forum for sharing experiences and it disappoints me to see readers taking offense. Why don't we leave what is put on the forum, at the forum and do with our lives and AS, what we feel is right? Its our choice, nobody can take it away from us. But we do need options and new outlooks. This AS in anycase doesn't leave us with too many line of approaches to treatment.

Regards,

Ankush