Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Do probiotics complement NSD?

Thanks Darryn

I thought as much. I am going to find a non starrchy cabbage this week and make sauerkraut!

Unless I start to take intermittent antibiotic therapy I'm not sure what the value of probiotics are? Are any of you concerned you might actually potentiate the problem?

after they failed iodine test - yes.

Okay nobody was able to tell me why they take probiotics but upon doing some research here are some concerns:

From Breaking the Vicious Cycle by Elaine gottschall. Many probiotic/yoghurt companies are putting Inlulin/FOS (fructo-oligossaccharides) into there product. They are thought to feed "healthy bacteria". But they also feed Klebsiella. She even mentions this is implicated in AS. She did say Natren is against doing so. Inlulin is also known as Neosugar, alant starch, alantin, dahlin, helenin and diabetic sugar.

FOS is found naturally in artichokes. But she implied I beleive that it is safe in it's natural form.

Since you've mentioned Elaine's Gottschall work, i have to say i used to make homemade yougurt (after her recipe, with the note that here in Romania people who live in small farms make this kind of yougurt the natural way).

In this yougurt lactose is suppose to be eliminated (due to strict condition of fermentation) and is suppose to contain good bacterias.

Needles to say that i gave up after a few tries - it took 24- to 48 hours to get a nice good flare after eating yogurt. (commercial youghurt makes it off course even worse)

So my conclusion was that good or bad those bacterias (same that i found i most probiotics products like Bifidobacterium or Lactobacillus) are not for me.

Don't know why...

and it raised a question also - since i am 100 % sure that klebsiella is not used in milk fermentation as a starter and probably you will not find it in homemade youghurt why is that those flares occur after driking this nonlactose and friendly bacteria youghurt?

So on those basis i stay away from any probiotic supliment.

There are a couple of other possible explanations that I can think of for why the homemade yogurt still bothered you...

1. There are probably still small amounts of lactose left even after the careful SCD recipe is done. I saw somewhere a discussion of an additive which is used by professional lactose-free yogurt manufacturers to get the lactose down to super-low levels. Normal yogurt only converts 20-30% of the lactose. So, suppose the SCD method is in-between normal yogurt and "lactose-free" certified yogurt -- maybe it gets 90% of the lactose. That is probably good enough for many people, but the remaining 10% could be too much for others.

I have been making homemade yogurt using this technique recently, and am concerned about this possibility... I wanted to get a lactose test to try to measure the remaining lactose but so far I have only found them sold in batches of 100 for professional labs, for example
http://www.biocompare.com/ProductListings/17896/Galactose-Lactose.html?types=105-115072&sb=true

2. Many people with "leaky gut" problems develop allergies to milk protein. Cow milk casein is one of the most common food sensitivities. Unlike gluten, casein is not known for damaging the gut lining to cause leaky gut, but if you've already got a leaky gut then when the casein leaks out, the body mounts an immune attack against it. So, if you have developed a sensitivity to casein due to gut problems, then yogurt made from cow milk can provoke an immune response that will flare you up. For some reason the casein goat milk can be less troublesome in this respect, so some people do better using goat milk for yogurt.

@SJLC

thank's for puting me on another track since my own conclusions seems to get me at a dead end.

yes, a test for measuring lactose on homemade youghurt would be something verry usefull if we can get such thing at a afordable price.


did not think about casein yet. i'll try dig more about it in the next days.

it's verry true i've gut a "leaky gut" - ulcerative colitis on 20 cm on my rectum i gues qualifies me for such definition.

problem is that i can eat butter and dry cottard cheese without any evident effects on my gut or on my AS. In fact those two are the base of my diet when i am in big pain and seem to be some of the few verry well tolerated (except meat offcourse)

so there are 2 things that puzzles me:
1. as far as i know you will find around 2-5 % lactose inside them too. So off course there is the possibility that at a higher degree this procentage could be harmefull fo me. Again measuring the lactose from homemade youghurt would be something verry helpfull.

and again - i've just had two days ago some cottard cheese not so dry like i ussualy eat - there are some bad flares that could be related to it, but i'm not 100 % sure since i've also ate ceddar cheese and introduced some new fruits&veggies into my diet (canned pineapple, raw tommatoes, berries & more).

and also i'm facing some reactivation of my HRC since a couple of weeks...so it's verry complicated to make a connection between foods and flares.


2. i suppose that you can find casein in those products too, how's that i don;t have the same reaction to it?

Based on your tolerance of cheese, it sounds like lactose is probably what bothers you. Cheeses have plenty of casein but very little lactose.

probably.

It is possible. people with URC like me seem to develop temporary intolerance to lactose. I'll have a chat with my doctor next time i'll see her on this problem.

But this doesn't answer the probiotics problem.
Last time i've made me homemade yoghurt i kept the process going for around 48 hours - it was so dry that seemed more like cottard cheese than yoghurt. But was still problematic.

Another thing to try would be to drip off whey with cheesecloth to make a more greek-style yogurt; I've heard lactose can drain off with the whey.

What are you using for your yogurt starter? Is it a special SCD starter? An SCD site mentioned that bifidus in some yogurts can cause problems, so maybe your original guess that the bacteria were not right is true after all...?