Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; Dr's visit

Deborah,
Interesting I didn't knew there were GP's thinking about this in this way. I recently had the same insight based on my own observations. You might want to read this thread that basically covers the same.

About the antibiotics. I have no expertise with them but I know that John didn't have effect from the minocyclin but that could also be due to the brand which effects the effectiveness of this antibiotic. I believe you have got to have the Lederle brand. But still I doubt the effectiveness of this antibiotic as I have heard from someone else from the roadback.org that it wasn't effective against AS. Minocyclin is effective in other autoimmune diseases probably due to its property to travel easy through body tissues. In AS however we don't need that cause the primary place of action is the gut. Maybe doxycycline is an alternative you're docter is willing to offer.

About the probiotics. I don't know how much to take but I certainly should start before the end of the antibiotic cure and maybe during the whole cure and have it at least some weeks after the cure. Better too much then too little. I didn't take them during my cure some years ago and had a nasty candida overgrowth some weeks after finishing.
Gerard


"Walk gently, breathe peacefully, laugh hysterically." -Nelson Mandela-

OOPSS, I see you already had a lot of responses also from John. I didn't see them because of the unusual long blanc space under your post....

Edited by wishing_well on 05/20/03 07:03 AM (server time).

Arjan,
Klebsiella live on starch but other bacteria may live on other substances especially for us indigestible fiber can host a lot of bacteria. Cellulose is a good substrate for some bacteria it contains the same sugars as starch but they are only linked in another way (stronger) to each other. So if we eat enough vegetables there is enough to eat for the creatures. Sauerkraut is even better as it is already predigested by bacteria and only leaves fiber and nutrients and few energy.
Gerard

"Walk gently, breathe peacefully, laugh hysterically." -Nelson Mandela-

Gerard,

Of course other substances can feed bacteria, including remains of undigested protein, but it's will never be a booming substrate like starch, so it will never lead to a strong, self maintaining population.

As soon as you stop the supplements the population will drop to a level that matches the foodcontent of your intestines.

Since we have eaten low starch for many hundreds of thousands of years, I tend to be at ease with my low intestinal flora level.

regards,

Arjan

Hey Ted,

I've recently started with milk Kefir and Grape Juice Kefir. Made my first sauerkraut this weekend. Just waiting on the fermentation now. I've made kimichi. Nothing like homemade.

Chris

Hi Matt,

Thank you for your response. I looked up that site and it is very interesting. Sounds like this is a long term therapy and as you said it is slow working. Seems like everything is. Hopefully it will speed things along anyways. I hope I do not get that Herxheimer flare. Not what I need right now. Did you get it? Sounds like my dose is low enough to take it every day? So I will just continue on and see what happens along with the NSD. And also thanks to everyone else who responded. Yes I do have a dr on the same wavelength. He has an anti-aging clinic on the side and that is where he presribes this diet. So we are anti- aging as well as helping our AS symptoms. Otherwise I'm sure I'd never be eating like this. Just think of how young we will all be.


Deborah

Hi Deborah,

If you want a natural antibiotic try garlic. I have had to revert to LSD sadly again for energy reasons verus NSD which I do not fully understand. So I have brown rice typically once a day and sometimes have garlic at the same time. Hardly even notice a difference from my NSD diet.

Even better, I take a small sliver of ginger and chop up finely. This seems to work even better.... maybe because ginger has some antibiotic qualities as well as anti-inflamatory.

Take care,

Tim

A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. - Winston Churchhill

Hi Tim,

That is too bad about having to go LSD. You always appear so positive and especially had such quick results. My naturalpath was talking about taking garlic the last time I saw him. Do you take it naturally or do you take the pills. By the way thanks for the list of foods you PM'd me when I started the diet. They were a big help. I do not have an energy problem propably because I am not working at the moment. Can't imagine what it would be like to work and eat like this. I think I may run into energy problems as well if I was working. I am getting a visit from a rehab nurse this week. So hopefully I will be ready to go back to work soon. I still find this a big adjustment but will give a good trial. Thanks again Tim.

Deborah

Arjan there is always soluble fibre, FOS and various polysaccharides in vegetables and fruit and daily foods to feed lacto and bifida spp. that is why i think probiotics as a daily intake will bias the balance towards the species added each day - especially when there is ZERO starch in the diet.
Like zark i am also experimenting with salt.
I cannot easily agree with the sentiment that probiotics is a waste of time as we get the gut flora pre-determined. Did we predetermine Klebsiella? Candida?

Ted
"Auto-immunity or self-help - no decision"

Sorry that it had to happen Tim.
Maybe you can alternate starch days with non-starch or some other combo.

Ted
"Auto-immunity or self-help - no decision"

Hi Deborah,

I take the garlic naturally, I find the pills are not quite as potent as the real deal. Actually been LSD with the use of the garlic or ginger for 5 days now and notice very little difference. Feels so much better to have so much energy again. I actually believe the ginger does me even more benefit, but I alternate between the two each day currently. Energy is soaring and could probably cut back starch to every other day.

I am still stumped as to the energy issue, maybe a question for Carol Sinclair and Ebringer when I get to Vegas. I had lost 4 more lbs since March 18 (last Doctor visit), was down to 190lbs.... which at 6'4" is not much left to lose and I could feel it.

Doing well and spirits are high, so can not ask for much more. I still consider NSD/LSD the best option and that healing the gut is important (just as Ted believes) for long term improvement (ability to eat more starch without flares).

Keep the questions coming if you got them, we like them here

Take care,

Tim

A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. - Winston Churchhill