Kickas.org Forums Treatments, Drugs and Alternatives NSD and diet-related; NSD or SCD - confused

My question is really only: why NSD and not SCD? The explanation behind the healing effects of SCD seem the same as for the NSD?

Really confused now.

Hi Linella,
Well I don't know a LOT about the SCD,but there are things I know I can't have on it like the SCD says all cooked veggies are ok, but cooked carrots turn black and I ate some before I got iodine and I limped for a week!!Also, in SCD beans and peas are legal,NSD they're not, as they are starchy.Also,on the NSD most people can have table sugar,(unless you have candida probs) whereas the SCD forbids it!SCD also allows artificial sweetener and this is almost a sure flare for me.I read up on it and it is because the artificial goes all the way through the tract sweet and feeds the kleb.That's just off the top of my head.Hope it helps!
Shauna

Linella,

I think the NSD just goes a couple of steps further down the "starch exclusion" path than the SCD, which allows beans and pulses, but only after gut symptoms subside and there has been some healing.

The SCD has been targetting those with primarily gut issues, whereas Prof Ebringer's work was looking at a different population - those with AS - a lot of whom have IBD *as well* as part of the bigger picture.

If you think of it a Venn diagram there are the folks with Crohn's Disease, Ulcerative Colitis and Irritable Bowel Syndrome under the "IBD" umbrella in one circle and the folks with AS and other sero-negative spondylo-arthropathies as the other umbrella group in the other circle. Where the 2 cross over are the AS folks with IBD *as well*, so this is like a double whammy, needing a more rigorous approach.

I guess SCD is very similar to the LSD - both are a sort of "chilled out" version of the more restrictive NSD.

As with our various presentations of our various diseases in the Spondy group, there is not a "One Size Fits All" diet. Hence why some need to tug and tweak, excluding and re-introducing various supposedly "safe" foods, to get it right *for them* as individuals.

No wonder the docs decide quickly that "it's not AS" if you are not the classic textbook 17-30 y.o male, presenting with SIJ and thoracic pain which is worst at night...


Just think of yourself as a work in progress, performing a series of carefully documented scientific trials on yourself!

Louise

"Just think of yourself as a work in progress, performing a series of carefully documented scientific trials on yourself!"

Looks like there's no other option is there? Well, I could let the doctors perform trials on me, but I trust their judgement less than my own.

Linella,

I'm no expert, but this is how I understand it: The main theory behind the NSD is that it prevents the bad guys (klebsiella pneumoniae bacteria) from propogating and causing an autoimmune attack on our poor connective tissue. The klebs feed off of the starches, so the NSD treatment aims to starve them. While the SCD may be really beneficial for most people, for spondy patients, they'll still have problems because of certain starchy vegetables.

I'm sure DragonSlayer or one of the other cagey vets can add more detailed commentary, but hopefully this helps clear up some of the confusion.

Freddie

Exactly Freddie. George

Yep, specific carbs vs no starch....

Although, when you put it like that I guess we're super specific carbs, since we can still the simple carbs found in the fruits and veges we *can* eat.

Yes, I think you're onto something - using "Super" in a sentence pertaining to all here at KA is a good idea...

Hope you've avoided a nasty bite from that Halal meat incident, Kurumi.

Louise

I'm new here, so what is "NSD" and "SCD"?

NSD is no-starch diet. It is the reason this website was started..to get the word out. A Doctor (Ebringer) who is a Rheumatologist and AS sufferer developed it and it really works for many people. You can learn all about it on the NSD part of this forum.

SCD stands for specific carbohydrate diet. You'll have to google it to learn more, but it doesn't really help AS patients.

Good Luck and Welcome to KA, you'll find loads of info on all different types of treatments for AS here, and some really good people too!!

-Donette