*---------- THREAD SUMMARYThe positive tone of this thread lasted from 2014-06-20 to 2014-12-11 (six months) and centered around the powerful, starch tolerance effect of the fermented food called Natto. Then Zark became uncertain as to what caused his tolerance of unrefined, unprocessed starch and beer. They had to be consumed in moderation -- no binging. By January 2015 he was mostly confident that the introduction of fermented foods was important.
The micro-organisms in fermented foods destroy other bacteria in the gut and take up their space. The microbes in fermented foods also produce compounds that increases the body's natural defenses to pathogens such as viruses, bacteria, fungi,... Source:
http://www.life-enthusiast.com/bacillus-subtilis-story-a-3835.htmlAlmost a year after the thread was started others in the thread also confirmed their positive experience of Natto giving them starch tolerance. However, FredSonoma had to stop eating it because he felt that it was having a negative impact on his digestion but it was not creating joint issues. He had to eat the Natto with EM-1 (a probiotic for plants and soil.)
The orginal poster (zark) suspected that the controversial anti-fungal pharmaceutical called Lufenuron was also an important contributor to healing the gut and getting into remission. That makes sense since fungus is so hard to control and probably is a major player in keeping the gut damaged and dysfunctional.
Many participants in the thread (zark, MarkyT & FredSonoma) reported that Natto made them starch tolerant. Natto is a fermented food. Aside from the addition of microbes to the gut and immune enhancement mentioned above fermentation reduces the amount of gut-irritating and nutrient robbing phytic acid while actually increasing the amount of protein, minerals and bacteria. The added bacteria probably add to the variety of species that will muscle out the bad microbes.
Fatigue and/or anxiety was reported to occur within a few hours after eating starch sometimes while on the Natto diet. I would remark that even with no pain that fatigue or anxiety would be a bad sign that the body is over-taxed via a reaction of the immune system to the bad microbes that are feeding.
Zerk observed that deep fried starch items (some instant noodles and fried foods) had a significant, and the strongest effect on creating painful AS symptoms two hours after eating. He speculates that the palm oil in the instant noodle ingredients may be a trigger because it is modified (hydrogenated). He very likely is correct that being processed is a factor.
I suspect that the strong AS symptom trigger might have to do with the high temperatures at which the starch is cooked in oil resulting in a large amount of lipopolysaccharides (LPS) -- cooking a carbohydrate in an oil at high temperatures creates LPS (steaming or boiling is better than frying).
When some immune cells are exposed to LPS up-regulation of TLR-4 and TLR-5 occur. This triggers the release of cytokines from the immune cells and the cytokines cause inflammation in other cells. LPS is found on the cell walls of gram negative bacteria of which Klebseila and other suspected AS bacterial triggers are.
This makes me wonder how much fats, sugars, proteins and starches should be separated in the diet. I would group sugars and starches together and I have read from multiple sources to not mix sugar with fats. This sounds like many desserts. Perhaps a sugar with a cream on bananas is safe but not a heated combination.
I speculate that deep-fried noodles might also have a property different from boiled noodles. That property might not allow the noodles to undergo the retrograde process while cooling in which the noodles revert from the non-resistant form to a resistant form. The resistant form is digested less in the small intestine but more-so in the large intestine; this might be good for SIBO sufferers to know whom need to reduce the amount of available starch in the small intestine while still getting starch to the microbes in the large intestine.
NOTE: If the microbes in the large intestine are chronically starved due to an NSD then they will naturally migrate up into the small intestine where they do not belong and cause damage and symptoms. Do not starve the microbes in the large intestine. Furthermore, having the microbes that belong in the large intestine in the small intestine will create inflammation that will cause the ileocecal valve to malfunction and allow microbes to migrate between the small and large intestines at will.
charlieiportugal reported that after going on a not-super-strict NSD at age 25 he achieved total remission in a couple of years. After all that time he got even more daring and tried beer occasionally and started eating more foods with small amounts of starch. Within a few weeks subtle AS symptoms returned and so he went back on NSD and AS symptoms quickly subsided. Hey says, "the moral of the story if there is one, is that even after 15 years starch free, I still cannot touch starch and I am quite happy to accept that I will never be able to eat starch in my life."
*---------- ADDITIONS REGARDING THE IMPORTANCE OF SOLUBLE STARCHIn my readings I have the impression that eating SOLUBLE starch is beneficial to healing the microvilli of the gut thus maintaining a healthy gut biofilm that protects the microvilli. Without the microvilli the beneficial biofilm would simply slough off and leave the gut membrane exposed to pathogens and irritating molecules.
Eliminating all starch long-term or indefinitely is detrimental -- flora diversity and numbers go down and the deterioration of the gut lining will follow. Also without a good energy replacement (like fat) the body might begin to waste and weaken.
There is no such thing as an "essential" sugar and new evidence is showing that a high starch -- perhaps primarily a high sugar diet -- is a great contributor to illness in USA. Theoretically we can survive without any starch because our liver can make all the sugar that we need but that would be neglecting the biofilm that we depend on. There must have always been some starch in our gut to support our microbiota.
What follows is in contradiction to Charlieiportugal's findings and the experience of some others. Perhaps a No Starch Diet is good at the very beginning to get AS and LGS symptoms under control but then slowly add back a single starch type, only one for at least two meals a day for a few days to see what the reaction is. The idea is to hopefully get lucky and feed the good bacteria with a starch type that the bad bug specific to you does not prefer. Hopefully the bad bug will get starved and crowded out. Keep adding new starch types and rotate them.
*---------- THE INSTANT EVERYTHING CULTUREPouring instant porridge or oats out of a Quaker Oats packet is convenient but not as healthy as we are led to believe. The instant oats have been ground very small so that they cook fast. But this small size increases their surface area and hence the rate and amount of fiber and starch that microbes have access to. The result is a spike in microbe population sizes and their byproducts. When the gut was strong these spikes rarely phased us. But now we probably have patches of weeds in our gut just waiting for a rich food.
Going back to cooking whole, organic grains and seeds from scratch through soaking and fermenting not only has the nutritional benefits mentioned above but restores an old psychological component of life that has been lost in the instant gratification world we now live in.
I have started eating millet that has been soaked for 24 hours. The texture and taste is so much richer than anything that comes out of an overly sweet instant pack. Having to plan meals a day or two ahead of eating time creates a positive anticipation for a meal that I really like. That wait is just one more positive thought that I hold in my mind for many hours. Accumulating this kind of anticipation for rewards that are not instant will have a positive effect on my mood and even digestion!
Eating a store bought fermented food like olives, pickles, sauerkraut, natto, etc., may not be enough when the gut is damaged but only good for maintenance. Taking those store bought fermented foods and culturing them by keeping them at room temperature and maybe adding nutrients for the existing microorganisms will improve the microbial colonies but only if it has not been pasteurized or irradiated.
I came here to report my satisfaction with adding millet to my diet but first I searched for "starch" in the subject line and found this thread. I think it deserves to be brought back to life.
Keep experimenting and finding starch types that you can add. Variety is the spice of life! Good luck!
