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Joined: Mar 2007
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Silver_AS_Kicker
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Pete, I'm not so sure that most self sustaining citizens were expecting or wanting stimulus help. I think all those folks wanted was maybe some temporary assistance from FEMA. It is those that typically live off the government's teet that would want stimulus money. Just look at the handout that took place in Detroit in the past few days.


Kind Regards,
Jay

Almost all of us long for peace and freedom; but very few of us have much enthusiasm for the thoughts, feelings, and actions that make for peace and freedom. - Aldous Huxley

Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. - Thomas Jefferson
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Well said Dean.


Kind Regards,
Jay

Almost all of us long for peace and freedom; but very few of us have much enthusiasm for the thoughts, feelings, and actions that make for peace and freedom. - Aldous Huxley

Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. - Thomas Jefferson
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Quote:

Pete, I'm not so sure that most self sustaining citizens were expecting or wanting stimulus help. I think all those folks wanted was maybe some temporary assistance from FEMA. It is those that typically live off the government's teet that would want stimulus money. Just look at the handout that took place in Detroit in the past few days.




Temporary assistance? Sure sounds like a bailout to me; no matter what you choice to call it, the tea-baggers don't want anything from the federal government unless it's for them, like flood relief, or social security checks; they want relief but they don't want anyone else to get relief. Many that are fighting against healthcare reform are getting health care from the federal government. Again, hypocrisy in action. All I ask for is consistency. If you don't want the fed in your life, don't cash the social security check, don't ask for help from the feds in an emergency; if you want to be self-sufficient, be self-sufficient, but don't pick and choose.

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I don't think it is necessary to stereotype everybody in the state of Georgia as a "tea-bagger". Additionally, there is a big difference between federal disaster assistance and wasteful, "dead end" stimulus money.

Also, why shouldn't those opposed to big government get social security checks? They were forced to pay into the system and did pay into the system, so now you automatically think this is the government's money and is there's to do with as they please handing it out to any and every open hand in the street? Come on man! I don't get your logic. Also, I'm sure there are many out there that would gladly take their money back (with interest) from the ponzi scheme that social security is. However, if you've paid in, no matter what you think of the system, you are eligible to receive benefits.


Kind Regards,
Jay

Almost all of us long for peace and freedom; but very few of us have much enthusiasm for the thoughts, feelings, and actions that make for peace and freedom. - Aldous Huxley

Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. - Thomas Jefferson
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Quote:

I don't think it is necessary to stereotype everybody in the state of Georgia as a "tea-bagger". Additionally, there is a big difference between federal disaster assistance and wasteful, "dead end" stimulus money.

Also, why shouldn't those opposed to big government get social security checks? They were forced to pay into the system and did pay into the system, so now you automatically think this is the government's money and is there's to do with as they please handing it out to any and every open hand in the street? Come on man! I don't get your logic. Also, I'm sure there are many out there that would gladly take their money back (with interest) from the ponzi scheme that social security is. However, if you've paid in, no matter what you think of the system, you are eligible to receive benefits.




Well, Jay, apparently your view of hypocrisy is different from mine, so there's nothing for it.

And I'm sure you know that most SS recipients get back way, way more than they put in, so your main point is a weak one, whether you can follow the logic or not, man.

And that "wasteful" stimulus money you refer to has kept 500,000 people (and counting) in their homes who otherwise might have lost them, has succeeded in restoring more than half of what we all lost from our 401ks at the end of the last administration, has reduced the income tax burden on the middle class, and has returned many auto-workers to their jobs, and that's only with a small portion of the money -- more great things are to come in the next few years, whether you like it or not. I'm sure all the people who received this help think a bit differently than you, and how fortunate that is.

Regardless, I think we're getting off-topic here, so I'll let this be my final word on the subject and leave the field to you to muddy up.

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Quote:

I hope you can get something like what we have here in Canada. I pay under $60/month for extended health care which includes dental. Here's a summary of my benefits



That's how I think all of this should all be approached

Why not do a direct comparison of the all the different ways other countries handle these problems? Learn from them, figure out what works, what doesn't, especially with the countries that have made changes in the direction of more universal health care in recently years, they would have the statistics that would be the most relevant to us, we could look at the before/after to find out how the changes affected the average life span, etc.

I've heard some discussion that makes direct comparison to the US and Canada, England, France, etc but these were mostly from "fringe" media, like Bill Maher's comedy show on HBO, "Sicko", some web sites, but see almost nothing like that in the mainstream media, and disappointed that Obama doesn't openly cite some of these numbers

Then I think I realized why he chose to not go with that strategy. I think because he knows that this country is still too busy chanting "We're Number One! We're Number One!" to stop and give any of those unflattering comparisons a serious look


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Pete, I'll send you a PM as I agree that we are straying.



Quote:

Why not do a direct comparison of the all the different ways other countries handle these problems?




You mean benchmarking? You bring up a great point and one I've never heard anyone from government bring up. We did an very informal solicitation of healthcare systems in other countries on another health related site that I peruse. We had folks from England, Australia, France, and Canada respond. Out of all the summations of the different systems I heard, Australia sounded most attractive. Either way, I agree, we should be benchmarking the healthcare systems of all developed nations and maybe a few developing/emerging market countries.

However, I'm of the opinion that any administration (read either failing party) is not for giving the American people appropriate healthcare reform. They have to many dollars to lose from lobbyists. Also, should something get passed, it would not surprise me in the least that individuals will be taxed for not having insurance. Uncle Sam is always looking to increase their top line numbers.


Kind Regards,
Jay

Almost all of us long for peace and freedom; but very few of us have much enthusiasm for the thoughts, feelings, and actions that make for peace and freedom. - Aldous Huxley

Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. - Thomas Jefferson
Joined: Jul 2001
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I've asked Americans quite a few times what their coverage includes and how much they pay but so far I've had nobody tell me their details for some reason. ?


Timo
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Hi Timo
Thats interesting wonder why?? Obviously it dosent affect me over here. But the whole American system seems very strange to me.
Kevin

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Timo, at my last employer, I think the coverage I had was maybe $40.00 per pay period (bi-weekly) for an individual, so roughly $80.00 per month. If I remember correctly, the deductible was $1,500 per year. I think max out of pocket after deductible was met was $3,000 with the co-insurance being 80%/20%. It covered nearly everything (medical, dental, vision, etc.). The company for whom I worked was self-insured. Aetna did the administration/processing. The only thing for which I was ever denied in seven years was a bite-guard to spare my teeth damage from my bruxism. It kind of irked me, but I didn't have time to fight it so I sucked it up. I somehow think that was largely Aetna's doing. All of that was three years ago, so I'm sure that premiums have increased a bit.


Kind Regards,
Jay

Almost all of us long for peace and freedom; but very few of us have much enthusiasm for the thoughts, feelings, and actions that make for peace and freedom. - Aldous Huxley

Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. - Thomas Jefferson
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