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Joined: Dec 2009
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I respect your opinion but [...*]. I live in Bozeman, Montna and, in my position, deal with him on a regular basis. [...*...]

Last edited by Administration; 12/31/09 02:01 AM. Reason: to remove remarks of a defamatory nature.
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Warrior_AS_Kicker
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To whom is this interest owed?


Hey, somebody stole my quote! - Me
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Dow Offline
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Originally Posted By: 30yrvet
Happy New Year everyone...

It's amazing that this thread is still going on??? It was a good discussion with good points on both sides, but the damage is done. The Dem's have had it their way, and have mortgaged our grandchildren's and great grandchildren's future to the hilt.


It ain't over yet!

The 2 bills are now in conference committee, where they will get melded together, hammered, & pummeled by all the forces and special interests that continue to exist in our country, and we should try to keep on top of them so we don't end up with the worst from both bills

I wish we didn't look at this as a Dem vs Republican issue, health care reform is in every citizen's interest, but please take a closer look at this:



found that here: zFacts.org (left-wing commentary, but chart info came from the White House.org)


Originally Posted By: 30yrvet
The US national debt today is 12 trillion and counting, so why not add another trillion to the debt for the healthcare bill. Oh yeah and let's add another trillion for yet another meaningless economic stimulus package. Who knows where the limit is going to end up. Today, without the healthcare bill, the interest alone on the national debt is at least $480,000,000,000.00 per year. That is conservatively $15,000.00 every second of the day for interest only!!!

I'm 61 years old. I'll never live to see the national debt paid off, but my grandchildren, great grandchildren, and great great grandchildren, etc... will be paying for it in higher taxes for their entire lives. Not that anyone really wants to pay off the national debt. The last president that was even remotely interested in paying off the debt was Andrew Jackson, and he was obsessed with paying it off, and he did it. Of course that was clear back in 1835. It's amazing how smart we are now compared to those old fogies.


Seems to me that many people are still taking it as a predetermined fact that health care reform will increase the national debt, rather than decrease it.

The Congressional Budget Office as of 8 days ago, said that the Senate bill, as it exists today, would yield a net reduction in federal deficits of 132 billion over the 2010-2019 period

Letter to Harry Reid (pdf)

here again is my link to Rep. Andrews from Nov. 7 disputing some of these perceptions in regards to that bill:




Originally Posted By: 30yrvet
Please forgive me for my rant. I mean no disrespect for any of my brothers or sisters on KickAS, or anywhere for that matter. I just wanted to put my 2 cents worth in. And, as it turns out, 2 cents isn't worth a lot these days.


well, those 2 cents plus the zillions of points that you've got coming to you as one of the current leaders in the "Water" music quiz, well, that adds up to...

(checking calculator...)

Definitely worth more than 2 cents to me! laugh2


Dow
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like the graph, thanks for posting it, a picture is certainly worth "a thousand words" for me. i thought i had remembered the deficit and debt going up and down at certain times and this graph helped refresh my memory, plus a few surprises.

and the pdf looks interesting on first glance, lots of useful info in there as well. thanks for the research and resulting info.



sue

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Dow Offline
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found these clips of Max Baucus speaking publicly in the past:

Dec. 2008 interview

HC Reform panel

my sense of it is that as Drizzit said, clearly he has a speech impediment. He certainly doesn't look [*] to me in these clips, but does stumble frequently, and has a hard time getting the words out. And especially in the second clip, that's a 46 minute long section, are we to think [...*]

Last edited by Administration; 12/31/09 02:02 AM.

Dow
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Dean,

I think you know from bumping into each other in any number of threads in the past that I absolutely respect your always-thoughtful (and often very funny!) posts. With that in mind, I am certain that you'll know that I am not attacking you in any way when I make this post--you just happened to be the lucky dog who raised the issue of the "damage" the health reform bill would do to the deficit, which gave me a convenient place to hit "Reply" so I could post a link I meant to post earlier. So no problems there, right? hrtballon

Alrighty then, on with the show. All I want do with this post is point out that if we are going to throw around blame for rapidly ramping up our federal deficit--and more specifically, ramping it up through some kind of health reform--then everyone here needs to remember that there is plenty of (recent) blame to go around. To wit:

Washington Post article

I think the one that made me laugh (cry?) the most is Hatch's reply about how, gee, buying things we couldn't afford to pay for was just how we did things back then. Translation: When his croneys, as opposed to the other party's croneys, were in power.

It never ends.

Brad


He who has a 'why' to live can bear with almost any 'how'.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

Sounds like everything takes time, discipline, and patience, and those are seven things I don't have.
--Jon Dore




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Silver_AS_Kicker
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A little bit the problem I have with that graph is that the line turns nearly vertical under the sitting administration. Granted, the spending ramped up insidiously under W as he enriched his neocon buddies hellbent on destroying our country (especially the financial terrorism his administration oversaw at the end of 2008), however I haven't seen any measures enacted to curb this spending. It also seems to be getting much worse. The current administration might well as be a continuation of the previous. Also, we really need to get off the partisan politics, eh? Stick to the issues. Debt is debt. It doesn't make it alright that administration B continues the damage that began under administration A. They both continue to dig us a bigger hole and set us up for catastrophe.

A little bit the problem I have with the deficit neutral or reduction of deficit statement is that it is very misleading. They desire to make themselves look like champions, yet it is merely a smoke and mirrors trick. They do the hey look here while our plan is revenue neutral or reduces the deficit, but don't look here as we lop off $400 - $500 billion of health care benefits to recipients of Social Security. Shameful. I'm also failing to see the cost benefit of a plan (Senate) that spends $871 billion to cover 30 million people. That's approximately $29,000 per person! Even if you make an assumption that health care increases at 10% per year between 2010 and 2019, we are at cost of less than $20,000 per person (using the per capita figure of 6,719 provided by Dow). That's just sheer wastefulness with something near 50% going into the abyss, likely the government abyss.

Regarding the Baucus thing. While I agree with Driz that it is absolutely shameful to make fun of anybody with a speech impediment, there was more to it than that. As far as I could tell, the only major fumbling in this speech that I noticed, after having watched the video clip twice, was at the very beginning. What was most telling in my opinion that he was potentially [*] was his body language, his disposition, his incessant rambling, his talking over everyone without fail. Contrast that to the Bloomberg interview posted where he is pretty mild mannered and reserved. I'd believe had this been a police officer to whom he was talking during a roadside stop, he would have ended up in jail.

Last edited by Administration; 12/31/09 02:03 AM.

Kind Regards,
Jay

Almost all of us long for peace and freedom; but very few of us have much enthusiasm for the thoughts, feelings, and actions that make for peace and freedom. - Aldous Huxley

Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. - Thomas Jefferson
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Hey Moose,

Quote:
To whom is this interest owed?


The interest is owed to whomever buys the t-bills. That can be us or it can be some foreign folks, most notably the Chinese lately. But I'm not sure that who gets the interest makes much of a difference. It still has to be paid.

Hey Brad,

Quote:
I think you know from bumping into each other in any number of threads in the past that I absolutely respect your always-thoughtful (and often very funny!) posts.


Thanks for the complement, and I would never take offense at a reply. Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. (with the possible exception of Mr. Andrews. laugh2 Get that Kevin? )

I never meant to imply that the Dems were the only ones who liked to spend other folks money. They are just better at it than most. I believe the reason the the Rep's are no longer in control of the government is because they got drunk on spending MY money, and as a result got booted out of office in favor of those who do that sort of thing better.

No, the national debt is far bigger than one party. After all, Andrew Jackson was the first real Democrat, and he paid the national debt all off during his administration.


Keep the Faith!


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Quote:
Max Baucus was NOT [*].

I have met him personally several times. He has a fairly severe speech impediment that is well documented and also stutters at times. People who know him are really laughing at this attack by the far right. It is a lame attack by the conservatives on a man with a physical disability.


I honestly thought this was the case and glad you cleared it up Steve.

Tim

Last edited by Administration; 12/31/09 02:03 AM.

AS may win some battles, but I will win the war.

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Silver_AS_Kicker
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Originally Posted By: Dotyisle
Quote:
Max Baucus was NOT [*].

I have met him personally several times. He has a fairly severe speech impediment that is well documented and also stutters at times. People who know him are really laughing at this attack by the far right. It is a lame attack by the conservatives on a man with a physical disability.


I honestly thought this was the case and glad you cleared it up Steve.

Tim


I have been around him several times in heated discussions and that is how he sounds when he gets really worked up and tries to talk to fast. I don't know him personally and have no clue if [*], but in a former job I was around during a few heated exchanges and that is Baucus getting wound up.

People are quick to make assumptions based on their experience but it really doesn't apply if they have not seen personally the speech impediment he has in action.

Last edited by Administration; 12/31/09 02:05 AM.

No families take so little medicine as those of doctors, except those of apothecaries.

Oliver Wendell Holmes
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