Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion #1 AS Web Support Group Antibiotic Question

Since overuse of antibiotics have been known to cause them to become ineffective--I was wondering how the longterm use of antibiotics to help in controlling AS can be effective. It seems to me that the body would become so used to them that they would no longer help, and could possibly be a danger when antibiotics are needed to fight off other kinds of illness or infection. I do not have any medical background other than being a patient, so it would be great if someone could explain this in laymen's terms. Thanks, Laurie

Hi Laurie,

All I can offer is my personal experience. My GP usually doesn't give me anti-biotics unless I can't get rid of my cold/bronchitis/pneumonia/sinus infection on my own and it has effected my lungs. I usually wait a bit before I even go to see my GP to see if whatever I have will get better. My GP gives me a short course of anti-biotics so that I won't build up a tolerance to any one anti-biotic. I am currently on an anti-biotic for bronchitis and it is only a 5 day course. I hope this helps and makes sense...since it is late and I am tired.

Take care and huggggggs,

Lisa

The big problem with over-prescribing antibiotics is indeed that we end up creating superbugs, but it's not just from using the drugs. The problem usually arises when someone is taking a certain dose, say a 10 day course of an antibiotic but starts to feel better after a week. The drug is RX'd over 10 days because that's how long it takes to rid your body of the ALL of the bacteria ...by stopping early, the few bugs that remain in your system have been exposed, but not killed. They in effect become "immunized" to the antibiotic.

There is another big problem, and I'm sure many of you have experienced this...you go to your doctor, suffering from a cold. Not satisfied with the answer to just go home and live with it for a week, you demand that your doctor give you something to help. Rather than prescribing something to relieve the symptoms, like cold medicine, or decongestant, or cough syrup, he/she prescribes an antibiotic. It's been done by thousands of doctors over the past several decades, and seems harmless enough, BUT, COLDS ARE CAUSED BY A VIRUS! Antibiotics do nothing against a virus, they only work against bacterial infection. So, you walk out of the doctor's office, get your antibiotic prescription filled, and take nothing more than a placebo....and in the process you have immunized countless bacteria that were in your system at the time, because, of course, most of us feel better after a week or less, so we stop taking the antibiotics.

I'm not at all convinced that long-term antibiotic use for AS is dangerous, nor am I convinced of it's safety, as far as the "overuse" issue is concerned. Perhaps DragonSlayer will see this and reply. John is very knowledgeable about this sort of thing and he'll be able to give you much more of an educated reply than I.

I hope you find the answers. Darren.

Take Care...

Hi Laurie,
It's good to see a familliar name! Just dropped by after a long hiatus and wanted to rattle your chain. Hope all is well with you. Looks to me like Darren gave a very good answer to your question. I'm taking azulfadine which can be considered antibacterial and seem to be doing just fine for the last 3 years.
catch ya later,
John L in TX

Dear Laurie:

Have not seen you (or John L!) in a long time; great to have you both back. I think Darren has given a pretty good general overview. Antibiotics have become abused, but AS many sufferers require them long-term.

It is not the 'body' that becomes somehow used to a specific antibiotic, but, rather, the germs. And whether these germs actually mutate to produce unaffected strains, or these strains are "selected-out" by the antibiotic, the colonies can be replaced by 'hardened' strains.

Some people with AS-family diseases have taken antibiotics and noticed great results and even full remission for many months, only to have the symptoms return. I think that the problem has been that their only approach was antibiotic with just one class (like fluroquinolones) that caused resistant strains to be selected-out.

The approach that I have proven-out for more than two years now, is a multi-pronged attack, using the no-starch diet as the primary therapy. While taking antibiotics, it is probably much better to cut off the germ's best food supply, so that fewer generations reproduce. The germ that is almost certainly responsible for AS is called Klebsiella pneumoniae, and it has a characteristic that, in the presence of starch it not only "blooms" (reproduces) out of control, but is able to manufacture a thick outer shell (capsular) covered with a sugar complex (muccoid). Without the starch supply, these Kp reproduce less and are more susceptable to antibiotics, as well as our own first-line (peripheral) immune system defenses (a non-immunoglobulin producing activity).

I have had great success employing most antibiotics that work against Kp--while being quite strict on the NSD, and I do not think that I have developed any resistive strains, as I 'cycle through' categories of antibiotics, and sometimes leave them off altogether. Any risk of developing the resistive strain of another bad bug (Clostridium dificile is most likely), is worth the freedom from AS, and most antibiotics do not have anywhere near the horrible side effects of the drugs used to treat the symptoms (not the causes) of AS. Many millions of doses of antibiotics (usually due to bad water supplies) are taken daily around the world--a good order of magnitude more than NSAIDs, for example--with very few bad side effects.

Best Regards,
John

Hi John L--So good to hear from you. I hope you and yours are all doing well.
I haven't talked to Denise in a long time-- I need to email her and see how she is doing. It would be fun to have a reunion of our get-together and see how everyone is. Take care--hope to see more of you soon. Laurie

Thanks Darren--You and John both gave very informative info. I always gain so much from reading the knowlegde that is shared on this board, so I knew exactly where to go when I needed an answer. I don't post very often, but I am a faithful ASKicker at keeping up with what is posted. Thanks again, Laurie

Thanks John for taking the time to add more info to what Darren said. I so appreciate the knowledge that you share with all of us. I was doing the Low Starch Diet for a couple of years and did quite well. I did not take a course of anitbiotics with them. I have not stuck with the diet in the last year, and gratefully, my symptoms have not increased any--but I still take my NSAIDS ( of course, I did even while on the diet). I have considered asking my rhuemie about the antibiotic approach along with getting back on the diet, but I am not sure he would be convinced to try it on me. I am somewhat afraid to go without the meds that have finally taken me to a level of comfort that affords me to have quality in my life. I know..."Oh, ye of little faith". While I would love to get off all of these meds, it is a very scary prospect, considering that it might put me back into a very bad state. Thanks again for you help. Laurie

Thanks for your response Lisa, and hugggggs to you too. Laurie