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Joined: Feb 2011
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Hi,

I have 7 months now since I started the NSD, and unfortunately I didn't notice any improvements. It's true that 5 months ago I stopped Enbrel, and then I can't compare the results with Enbrel against those ones from the diet, but nevertheless I would assume that at some point I should see at least some improvements. Now I'm taking daily arcoxia and I still have inflammation in my body. I'm a little bit worried if NSD will not kick in sooner, my pains will not be bearable anymore.

So how much time it took you to get good results with NSD? Were you taking some meds/supplements in parallel with the diet? Are you NOW taking any medicines/supplements to keep the inflammation away? What sports are you doing and are you using other methods as well?

Thanks a lot,
Andrei


Diagnosticated with AS end of 2009. HLAB27 positive. Being on Enbrel between July 2010 and May 2012. Now trying NSD, no dairy and no sugar since March 2012 - not so good results yet. Taking in paralel Arcoxia 90 mg (NSAID) every day.
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Andrei,

I went on NSD a bit after I had to quit Enbrel. When I first started NSD, my worst symptoms (spasmodic pain in ribs) were gone within a few weeks. However, I still had some bad pain. I finally figured out that I still had starch in my diet from various sources. It took me months to find and elimate all the hidden starches. As I became more starch-free, my overall pain abated more. After six months, I was about as good as I was going to get. I am not fully pain free, and I never expect to be. I have too much damage already done. However, I can now enjoy life again.

I'm lucky in that I don't have gut problems, even though I thought I did at one time. It turned out that sulfasalazine was causing my abdominal pains. Now, I only take one naproxen per day (at bedtime), and sometimes a second in the morning if I'm having a bit more pain from being overly active.

I take 3g of fish oil per day, 2000 IU Vitamin D, and a multivitamin. I used to take a lot more supplements, but I decided that they weren't doing much real good for me. I also take LDN for the MS I got from Enbrel. I continue to eat dairy, chocolate, and sugar. Maybe I could reduce my pain further by avoiding those, but that would make life just too depressing.

Along with some stretching, I bicycle, hike, and do dumbell exercises (upper body). I have to be careful to not sit for too long at one time, as that causes problems. I'm always trying to find that happy medium between too much and too little activity.

AS is a very personalized disease, in that the symptoms vary so much from one to another and what helps varies so much from one to another. I hope you find relief soon.

--Greg


AS symptoms started 1991. Official dx in 2006 with HLA-B27+, fused SIJ, bone spurs in back, extreme rib/hip pain, and other family with SpA. Started Enbrel in 2006 with good results, but stopped in 2010 due to nerve damage (MS) from it. Getting good results with no-starch diet since 2011.
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Andrei,

It took me around 5 months to really see a huge improvement on this diet, and that was after fasting on green juices for 14 days straight. It was a 2 step forward, 1 – 2 steps back for the first few months for sure.

But I really honestly truly believe the key to this diet should be a focus on anti-inflammatory foods more than it should be about testing every single thing with iodine and avoiding every starch ever.

Yes, I believe it is important to avoid starchy foods, so no potatoes, rice, corn, wheat flour, and also no dairy. But these are also very acidic foods and inflammatory foods in nature, especially now that they you've got so much GMO corn and also GMO soy on the market. All those cheap filler foods are slowly poisoning America, you can see it everyday you walk down the street or into a supermarket, these high starch, high processed foods are leading to all sorts of diseases within the body, obesity, diabetes, acidic systems which are known to support cancer growth etc. They are the reasons people have become addicted to so many over the counter pills, antacids, prescriptions, etc.

I believe the key to health is to focus on a plant based alkaline diet that is naturally low in starch. I say eat all the veggies, leafy greens, fruits, soaked nuts, seeds you want, and just avoid the ones that are known to be high in starch like bananas or cashews, but don't sweat the small stuff. I still eat apples regardless of how starchy they are, and sometimes I feel a little bit up upper back pain these days, which I might be able to trace back to a certain apple, but not every apple does that, and I believe it is better to not stress so hard. I continue to see amazing progress everyday as the overall inflammation in my body continues to disappear. I believe what we are really talking about when we talk about so many of these diseases, like colitis (which I have also had for years), and ankylosing spondylitis, what we are really doing is battling inflammation. My colitis is pretty much GONE from eating this way this past year!!! Hooray!!! And that I attribute to eating a very anti-inflammatory diet, greens with every meal (often pureed into a fruit or almond milk smoothie) lots of fruits & veggies, some fish, some soaked nuts & seeds.

Since you have already gone 7 months and not seen any change, why not try a couple of weeks on a all plant based diet with just fish 3 x per week. I would be truly surprised if you did not notice a reduction in inflammation! Also make sure to avoid ALL white/processed sugar. Continue to avoid all dairy. Also avoid factory rasied meats & eggs (these can also be very inflammatory in nature). Just eat a little wild caught seafood. Use dates for sweetening for those first couple weeks, then later you can ease back into adding a little honey or maple syrup. But I would avoid any concentrated sugars during the 3 weeks. If you are game to try this, I would love to hear the results!!!!

I am not a doctor nor am I perfect or a know it all, I am just a believer in plant based diet!! I am living proof that a mostly plant based diet can do wonders for some people, and it has been a complete life changer for me.

Xoxo,
Andrea

I also have some low starch recipes on my website to get you going!

I also avoid tomatoes & organes as they are very inflammatory in my body.


I'm now a KICK AS (and Kick IBD) success story!! After going low starch Paleo to heal my gut, I can now eat nearly all starches, grains & foods without inflammation, flare-ups, or pain. I used a modified SCD diet approach (minus dairy! plus cacao ♥). Cheers to healing & thriving again! I blog at http://www.forestandfauna.com/about/
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Here is some great info on foods & inflammation that I just stumbled across:

http://www.sprouthealthlifestyle.com/inflammation-information/

xoxo,
Andrea


I'm now a KICK AS (and Kick IBD) success story!! After going low starch Paleo to heal my gut, I can now eat nearly all starches, grains & foods without inflammation, flare-ups, or pain. I used a modified SCD diet approach (minus dairy! plus cacao ♥). Cheers to healing & thriving again! I blog at http://www.forestandfauna.com/about/
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Hello, Andrei:

For me, it was Ebringer's LSD and it took many months, even fasting and then eliminating dairy to perceive any benefit. I finally broke down out of impatience and began my own AP (antibiotics} for AS which is strictly used in conjunction with diet. Within FOUR DAYS I absolutely knew that I was on the right track with this combination.

Without a good scientific test, diet will not be so easy to verify, but I was able to control my ESR as it it quite un-subjectively reduced after some months on the NSD and especially after fasting.

And I have to say also that supplementation is very important and especially this and foods that are the primary building blocks of the tract; eat for healing. Supplement aggressively. Early on, I did a couple of Three-Day Apple Diets and then I did not require antibiotics to remain symptom-free, but had to exclude dairy and remain VERY strict.

Additionally, even with the antibiotics and dairy-exclusion, I noticed I was still improving even after nearly a year and a half; I imagine that people not doing antibiotics, doing fasting, and the apple cleanse, would take much much longer to attain the same relief I have.

HEALTH,
John

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It took my husband a few days to get rid of his AS pain (which was at the point where it was almost unbearable to walk).

We started off really extreme to see if we could get results really fast and also to test it out to see if going starch-free actually would help. We began by ridding all starch immediately by doing a 12 day juice and smoothie detox (being very careful not to add any fruit/veg that could be starchy). It was really easy, but for the first few days his pain flaired up worse than before, and then went away completely by Day 7. That was 7 months ago and he hasn't had a twinge of AS pain since after many, many years of suffering (he did test it out and had potato fries one night and AS pain came back with a vengence 2 days later. It took about a day for the pain to go away again).

He is completely starch-free now. I have written about our detox here: http://farmerkskitchen.com/ks-reboot/ You will als find on my blog a heap of recipes we make that are starch-free.

We bought some iodine tincture (around $8) from the chemist and a dropper (around $3). We test all his food and we found it really surprising to discover what has starch in it when you would think it wouldn't! Apples for instance, if the apple was picked too early the starch hasn't had a chance to change to fructose so the apple piece will go black when we test it with iodine (black indicates starch). Other starchy foods: pumpkin, some yogurts, cream cheese, all peas and beans, beetroot, baking powder (baking soda is fine), bananas, quinoa, etc.

To have success I think there are 2 main factors:
1. you must completely go starch-free. You can't have little bits now and then cause it will stay in your system.
2. unfortunately it depends on the person. My hubby can handle carrots and dairy fine, whereas others can't. That was the good thing about doing the juice/smoothie detox. He was pain-free when we started to add food in, so we could test what different foods did to his AS and we went from there. I just kept a food diary of everything I fed him and recorded any flair-ups. From doing this we discovered that if he eats too much yogurt (with no starch in it. About 500g) he would get a slight twinge of AS pain.

Good luck!


My husband has had AS for nearly 14 years and almost unable to walk. Now he is completely pain-free since following a strict No Starch Diet.
My food blog (with NSD recipes): www.farmerkskitchen.com
My husbands AS story: http://thefacesofankylosingspondylitis.com/a-s-face-0271-kirk-vagg/
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Thanks Andrea! I fell into the trap with peanuts thinking they would be okay and when I tested them with the iodine they turned black - oops! Peanuts are a legume! haha smile


My husband has had AS for nearly 14 years and almost unable to walk. Now he is completely pain-free since following a strict No Starch Diet.
My food blog (with NSD recipes): www.farmerkskitchen.com
My husbands AS story: http://thefacesofankylosingspondylitis.com/a-s-face-0271-kirk-vagg/
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Hi, Farmer_K,
I saw your website and found your jucing experience very interesting. I d like to give a try to this experience but i lost like 40 pounds since 6 months so i m very lean now and i dont have more to loose. How many pounds you and Kirk lost in this experience?
Do you heard about other AS peoples who did the juicing with great result?
i saw Betty did a similar diet with great result but is there any other as you know?
thank you very much

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Hi Jeffo,

My husband was slim to start with - 183cm and and has weighed 72kgs since High School (he is 32 years old now). During the juicing he lost 5kgs and put it back on once he finished. Even though he lost weight, he was the most energetic he has ever been! He didn't lose muscle.

With juicing, you are not limited to a certain amount of juices or smoothies. You can bulk up the calories by adding avocado into your smoothies (makes them taste creamy), coconut oil, coconut water, etc. And have as many as you like. We didn't just have juices as we wanted to put in more good fats and fibre, so we mixed up the day with smoothies and juices.

Betty is the only other person I know who has AS and tried the juice/smoothie reboot. The reason Kirk and I kicked off eating starch-free this way was because we watched the documentary 'Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead', which got us interested in juicing initially. Then we found out about eating a starch-free diet when you have an auto immune disease. We figured clearing out the starch from his system quickly would be best done through juicing and smoothies. It also gave us time to learn about which foods he could and couldn't eat while just focussing on smoothies/juices.

Hope that helps!


My husband has had AS for nearly 14 years and almost unable to walk. Now he is completely pain-free since following a strict No Starch Diet.
My food blog (with NSD recipes): www.farmerkskitchen.com
My husbands AS story: http://thefacesofankylosingspondylitis.com/a-s-face-0271-kirk-vagg/
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Thank you all for your input. It really helps a lot.

Originally Posted By: gbash
I finally figured out that I still had starch in my diet from various sources. It took me months to find and elimate all the hidden starches. As I became more starch-free, my overall pain abated more


For a couple of months I'm eating only tuna, salmon, chicken, eggs, lettuce, cucumber, kale, spinach, rucola, olive, celery, pineapple, plums, seedless white grapes, raisins, lemons, limes, dates, macadamia nuts, walnuts, hazelnuts, pistachio and during the last few days I added cauliflower and broccoli. All of them have been tested and seem ok in this region. Rest of the vegetables/fruits, unfortunately are starchy.
It's true that during the first months of the NSD I was having starchy foods, and it took me some time until I managed to exclude them (after I learned to use the iodine test on everything:) )

Originally Posted By: bettyrawker
I believe the key to health is to focus on a plant based alkaline diet that is naturally low in starch.


Andreea, I think this is a really good idea: I checked the foods which I'm currently eating, and there are quite plenty which are acids, so the next step would be, as you said, to reduce the amount of factory raised meats/eggs and concentrate more on greens and alkaline foods.
Concerning dates, do you any have problem with them? As I read, dried fruits contain sulphites, which bother the gut.
In what regards the soaked nuts, for how long are you soaking them? And do you feel any improvement by doing that?

Originally Posted By: DragonSlayer
Early on, I did a couple of Three-Day Apple Diets and then I did not require antibiotics to remain symptom-free, but had to exclude dairy and remain VERY strict.

I tried as well a Three-Day Apple Diet, but without any luck. On the contrary, the inflammation increased a lot, but maybe this was related to the fact that the apples were starchy (as I couldn't find any non starchy), or maybe because I gave up at the NSAIDs during the fast.

Regarding the antibiotics, do you know any natural antibiotics? I heard that oregano oil have some antibiotics properties.

Originally Posted By: Farmer_K
We began by ridding all starch immediately by doing a 12 day juice and smoothie detox (being very careful not to add any fruit/veg that could be starchy)

The juice fast might be one of the next steps, but unfortunately I'll have to find a replacement for some of the ingredients you have used. In this area, the followings are starchy: apples, ginger, pear, watermelon, honey dew melon, red capsicum, peach, grapefruit, nectarine.

Best of health!


Diagnosticated with AS end of 2009. HLAB27 positive. Being on Enbrel between July 2010 and May 2012. Now trying NSD, no dairy and no sugar since March 2012 - not so good results yet. Taking in paralel Arcoxia 90 mg (NSAID) every day.
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