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#453177 09/29/11 02:38 AM
Joined: May 2010
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Copper_AS_Kicker
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So in my readings lately I've grown very interested in this subject. I did search it here and was suprised there isn't more about it.

I've been testing my urine and saliva ph for the past week. Seems the more acidic I get the worse I feel.

I've been on the candida diet basically and it allows lemons. I'm not sure I'm doing that well with them even though it's only about 2 tablespoons/day. My hips have been aching terrible through the night. So the point is, lemons are alkalizing. ACV is also alkalizing but I had 1/2 tablespoon tonight and my left knee has swelled up now. When I tested urine after the meal with ACV it got more acidic than it was earlier in the day. Usually I'm more acidic in morning and it lessens during the day. But I'm never in the alkaline normal range.

My questions are...

Is my ACV experience a herx?
Is there a herx that can take place while alkalizing?
Is anyone else trying to alkalize or have alkalized?


AS & Fibro. NSD + no sugar
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AS Czar
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Hi, sunnypower:

Quote:


Is my ACV experience a herx?
Is there a herx that can take place while alkalizing?
Is anyone else trying to alkalize or have alkalized?




1: ACV cannot cause a Herx.
2: I don't know.
3: I have alkalized my system several times. Using Glyco-Thymoline especially during flu or cold. The problem is, an "alkaline system" (and this is my opinion--could be wrong!) cannot be measured through inference from pH results of urine; the transient values of this could be due to flushing out of various things.

When alkalization is discussed, it usually means "alkalizing foods" that are non-proteins, non-dairy, and non-fat usually and this has the reaction in the blood of causing blood pH to increase slightly. This increases efficiency of oxygenation and waste elimination and is a good state to maintain for overall health. People with AS especially should maintain a laxative, alkalizing diet, however there is a delicate balance and it is very difficult to avoid high-protein foods.

So I don't know more about urine pH related to alkalizing diet, but the Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction nearly cannot be initiated by most natural or herbal agents; bactericidal antibiotics is the most common way to induce the "Herx."

HEALTH,
John

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Magical_AS_Kicker
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Magical_AS_Kicker
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Matt Stone did some research into a protocol called RBTI that involves measuring salivary pH and manipulating body chemistry - http://180degreehealth.blogspot.com/search/label/RBTI. I think RBTI is mad but I've got a lot of time for Matt Stone.

I'm pretty sure that the 'grains and meat' causing acidity and leaching calcium and fruit and veges being alkalizing has been debunked as pseudoscience. This paper in Research Reports in Clinical Cardiology entitled 'The western diet and diseases of civilisation' has a section on acid load that appears to be well referenced.

Net acid load

After digestion, absorption, and metabolism, nearly all foods
release either acid or base into the systemic circulation.
Dairy products (especially hard cheeses), cereal grains, salt
(because of the chloride ion), meats, fish, shellfish, and eggs
are net acid yielding, whereas fresh fruit, vegetables, tubers,
roots, and nuts are net base yielding.65,215
It was recently estimated that the diet of East African Homo
sapiens during the Paleolithic era was predominantly net base
producing,216 as opposed to the typical western diet, which is
net acid yielding65,215 and hence leads to a chronic, low-grade
metabolic acidosis, which elicits loss of calcium ions caused by
mobilization of alkaline salts from bone to titrate some of the
retained hydrogen ions.215 This calcium is lost in the urine with-
out a compensatory increase in gastrointestinal absorption.215
Chronic, low-grade metabolic acidosis also induces the release
of amino acids, including glutamine and amino acids that the
liver can convert to glutamine.215 Glutamine is the major nitro-
gen source used by the kidney for synthesis of ammonia, thereby
increasing the excretion of acid (as ammonium ion) in the urine
and mitigating the severity of the acidosis.215 ­ ccordingly, in
the long term, a net acid-yielding diet may increase the risk for
osteoporosis and sarcopenia.65,215
Furthermore, a net acid-yielding diet increases not only
calcium excretion217 but also magnesium excretion.218 Finally,
there is evidence that chloride (a key determinant of the
diet’s net acid load219) may be a major cause of salt-induced
hypertension.215
On a final note, this chronic, low-grade metabolic acidosis
is exacerbated in elderly people who experience a decline
in glomerular filtration rate and hence have a decreased
renal acid excretion capacity,65 which is why correcting
diet-induced chronic metabolic acidosis in this age group
is even more important. Hence, we propose as a solution
to this chronic, low-grade metabolic acidosis a decreased
intake of sodium chloride and an increased consumption of
unprocessed fruit and vegetables, at the expense of refined
vegetable oils, refined sugars, cereal grains, hard cheeses,
and processed foods.

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Magical_AS_Kicker
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Quote:
I'm pretty sure that the 'grains and meat' causing acidity and leaching calcium and fruit and veges being alkalizing has been debunked as pseudoscience.

haha i take that back. i just followed up the references listed in that paper and it appears that acid-base balance of the diet is a well established scientific phenomenon that affects various health factors such as bone density and kidney function.

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Colonel_AS_Kicker
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ahhh yes, I remember reading about "Renal Acid Load" and the caveman diet years back. Not exactly the same I suppose though..


what I can eat on the diet (click here) -- my blog -- contact me (PM is broken)
"Some men, in truth, live that they may eat, as the irrational creatures, 'whose life is their belly, and nothing else.' But the Instructor enjoins us to eat that we may live." -- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD)
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I read on this many years ago as well.. think there may be something to it.

Do not do any testing.. just make sure I eat a lot of veggies... most days two salads now.

Tim


AS may win some battles, but I will win the war.

KONK - Keep ON Kicking
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Warrior_AS_Kicker
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Warrior_AS_Kicker
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I like the pH Diet book, just have a hard time implementing it. Working toward a diet with more raw veggies and fewer sugars, etc. The fewer acidic foods I eat, the better I feel.

Hope you find what works!


Ann
mom to three boys 10, 12, 14
Diagnosed with spondylitis in 2004
pharmacist who now seeks natural therapies including NSD & essential oils

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Copper_AS_Kicker
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Thanks for your reply John,

Maybe what I meant was 'die off' and not 'herx'. I guess yeast die off can be nasty and based on how I've felt on certain antifungals I would say it's probably true. For whatever reason though I cannot tolerate most 'acid' stuff. Just had a round with malic acid even and my hips have been aching terribly at night.


jroc,

I appreciate your post but I must give myself time to absorb it. You always have interesting info to share.

Tim,
Seems suspicious for sure.

Ann,
Sounds like a good book, I'll have to check it out. Thanks





AS & Fibro. NSD + no sugar

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