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#431051 02/04/11 03:25 PM
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Well...I finally got a copy of the MRI report from the scan I had at the beginning of last month. As I expected, no signs or AS. I will sit down with it properly later on and Google what I can, but it reads (in case anyone can shed any light on it as most of it means nothing to me!):

Loss of normal lumbar lordosis
Shallow central disc protrusion at T12/L1 that indents thecal sac without significant compression
No central canal, lateral recess nor exit foraminal stenosis
Normal appearance of the lower thoracic cord, conus and cauda equine
Unremarkable bone marrow signal
No evidence of inflammatory spondyloarthropathy
Normal appearance of SJIs
No evidence of AS
Conclusion: Normal

David


Suffering back, joint and, heel pain and stiffness; tiredness and lack of energy; red and warm joints; much clicking and cracking of joints etc. for four years. Current DX: fibromyalgia

Sometime music teacher and composer, PhD student
cadenza #431054 02/04/11 04:00 PM
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Hm. So, David, was this MRI one of those ones with dye that Molly speaks of?

I'm sorry you're no closer to a firm answer. Good grief.

Hugs,


Kat

A life lived in fear is a life half lived.
"Strictly Ballroom"

Inanna #431061 02/04/11 04:57 PM
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cadenza Offline OP
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I suspect this was the most basic possible MRI; I did ask the radiologist what sort it was and the answer was "Well, it'll be whatever the consultant ordered..."


Suffering back, joint and, heel pain and stiffness; tiredness and lack of energy; red and warm joints; much clicking and cracking of joints etc. for four years. Current DX: fibromyalgia

Sometime music teacher and composer, PhD student
cadenza #431064 02/04/11 07:27 PM
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Sorry it doesn't show up anything obvious.

It should (but being NHS may not) say on the report what sequences were used. The usual is just T1 and T2. Sagittal and axial just refer to which direction the scanner went - up and down or across. If you didn't have an injection, then it wasn't dye enhanced, which means it isn't going to do much about showing inflammation anyway. If you were lucky and actually got a sagittal STIR sequence then that should have shown up stuff, but I very much doubt if you did get that straight off. Also in the NHS you probably only got a 1.5 T scanner which isn't particularly high resolution (they now have 3T and even 7T ones), and they do scans at intervals of 5 or 6 mm, which means there is a lot of potential to miss significant stuff.

Did you get a copy of the actual scan on CD? If you didn't, it might be worth doing so. It shouldn't cost more than 10, and if they try and charge you more say that 10 is what other areas of the UK charge. If you do have the CD in your hand, it means that you can actually have it with you when you see any specialist or if you ever decide to go private. It makes a big difference to have a rheumie who knows what they are looking for examining it, rather than looking at a report.

cadenza #431065 02/04/11 07:29 PM
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not sure your history as I am fairly new here ... but ...

I was in tremendous back pain all summer ... lower/upper back and rib cage every morning stiff and in pain where I was sleeping 3-4 hours a night, waking up in immense pain and stiffness.

My MRI came back normal too when I had one done, however I had x-rays done of my SI joints and they show inflammation.

all of my upper back and rib cage pain and stiffness is gone now. My SI joints tend to get sore now at the end of the day and in the morning, but its very cold here and i've been a lazy shut in lately.


Diag - USpA/AS JUN-10 // HLA-B27+
Humira started DEC-10, every 2 weeks
Started Minocycline antibiotic therapy JAN-11
no/low starch diet started OCT-10
Natural Supplements: Super Joint Complex, Omega 3, Vitamin D3, Vitamin C, Milk Thistle, Men's Multi, Probiotic Blend, Zyflamend
cadenza #431085 02/04/11 11:29 PM
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David - sound like you had basic standard MRI - and as cemc says, not too many 'scans' at that, so, they could well miss the crucial informatin. Need as many 'slices' as poss - like 16 would be fairly minimal (I think!)

Right. Get copy of scan on disc - they only supply on disc in the UK, in Fr. we get on disc + printed out. Useful. Right. Next step, second opinion. And, MRI Saggital STIR with at very least T3 (tesla3) Tau 1 Tau 2 fat supression. IF you can locate a T7, then terrif...scanner m/c IF going pvt for MRI expect to pay around 450 per scan - which will give you lotw of slices, but, ensure that (as above otherwise waste of time!)

PDF]Neural Correlates of the DemTect
(3T) T1-weighted MRI scans. MRI scanning. For each patient, a high resolution T1 -MRI dataset was recorded on a 3 Tesla Siemens TRIO (Siemens, Erlangen, ...
www.karstenmueller.com/posters_km/woost_2009.pdf

The Evolution of Magnetic Resonance Imaging: 3T MRI in ...
Jun 15, 2008 ... As the availability of the stronger 3 Tesla (3T) MRI appears on the horizon, radiologists are faced with the .... Fat-water suppression techniques are also improved at 3T. .... The prolongation of T1 at 3T provides improved image contrast. ... It is important to note that T2* is shortened at 3T. ...www.eradimaging.com/site/article.cfm?ID=426 - Similar

Articles: Abdominal imaging at 3T: Challenges and solutions on ...
Nov 4, 2010 ... Since the first 3 Tesla (3T) magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scanners were .... between water and fat allows for more selective fat suppression ..... T1 and T2 relaxivity of intracellular and extracellular USPIO at 1.5T ...
www.appliedradiology.com/Issues/2010/10/Articles/AR_1...

Advances in Musculoskeletal Imaging: Rheumatology
If we minimize the T1 and T2 contrast elements, we are left with the proton density. Slide 9. MRI Split. In an image without fat suppression, (See left image in above .... We can see the architecture a little better with a T2 fat sat; .... In the spine, an area that is hard to evaluate is the sacroiliac joint . ...
www.hopkins-arthritis.org/rheumrounds/advances-in-mus...

Hope this helps understand. Now, as to contrast dye, depends on you and good kidney/liver functions. I can't 'do' dyes of this kind - in fact am even skin allergic to some dyes...that there is a difference!! OK. Would need to check this out with yr radiologist of choice. May have to go out of the area to fnd strong MRI m/c. (London has and you can easily get an appt. Just *Costs)

But, don't leet matters ie as they are. Hopeless. Take a 'deep' breath, cause you only just got started on the ole merry-go-round!!

Bon ccourage -


MollyC1i - Riding OutAS
MollyC1i #431086 02/04/11 11:39 PM
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Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin
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Here's one centre in London - from the price guide don't look like they have a Saggital STIR T1 T2 tesla3 fat supression m/c - flip what a mouthful...:))

Will see what else I can locate for you.

[PDF]The Society of British Neurological Surgeons
private medical facilities at the expense of the public system .... T3 -03. Out of hours MRI scanning for cauda equina syndrome (CES): what is the positive pick -up rate ..... A leading provider of news, research and online services, ..... trafalgar house, grenville place, london nw7 3sa, uk ...
www.sbns.org.uk/DesktopModules/Documents/DocumentsView.asp...

Informa Healthcare - Acta Oto-laryngologica - 0(0):1 - Full Text
Nov 11, 2010 ... 3D-FLAIR MRI was performed with a 3 Tesla (3 T) unit 24 h after intratympanic .... The scan time was 20 min and 1 s. Methods. 3D-FLAIR MRI was performed with a 3 T MRI ..... Alerting Services Manuscript Submission ... registered office is Mortimer House, 37-41 Mortimer Street, London, W1T 3JH. ...
informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00016489.2010.524938 -

----------------------##

Afraid it's going to be a case of sittng on the phone... Didn't find any pvt scannig services in Staffs! So, have stuck to London area. You will prob find more info on more digging/googling. But at least you got a start.

Last edited by Mollyc1i; 02/04/11 11:56 PM. Reason: more info

MollyC1i - Riding OutAS
MollyC1i #431087 02/04/11 11:57 PM
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Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin
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Closing out now as eyes are still a darn botheration.. Hopeless.


MollyC1i - Riding OutAS
MollyC1i #431092 02/05/11 12:31 AM
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Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin
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I can never resist having 'just another digging session' This 'might' be useful. Ask em the relevant questions though: Saggital STIR etc etc

Spinal Healthcare : Back & Neck Injury Treatment & Consultants ...
Fast accurate diagnosis; High quality MRI scans; Expert assessment by our specialist Spine Consultants ... Fixed price assessments, often covered by Private Health Insurance plans ... Services. Spine Assessments Resolution MRI Scanning ...
www.spinal-healthcare.com/ - Similar

Spinal Healthcare : Frequently Asked Questions
What services do Spinal Healthcare provide? Fast accurate diagnosis. High ...
www.spinal-healthcare.com/faq.php - Similar

The Lister Hospital - Diagnostic Imaging Services
... of offering the best in private healthcare is supported by our Diagnostic Services .... MRI provides high resolution images which may be required in addition to mammography and ultrasound. ... The National Osteoporosis Society recommends Bone Densitometry scanning as the ... Chelsea Bridge Road, London SW1W 8RH ...
www.thelisterhospital.com/our-services/diagnostic-ima...

And don't forget to tell em that you'll be wanting to walk away from the unit WITH the CD copy of the scans in your hand 'same' day - a report can follow later IF they are unable to provide a immediate report.

cross fingers -


MollyC1i - Riding OutAS
MollyC1i #431128 02/05/11 11:07 AM
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cadenza Offline OP
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Thanks for all your suggestions, I will digest them a bit later (I'm in the middle of struggling to cook a three-course meal...it's so sad to no even be able to lift pans and things easily anymore!). Just to give a quick recap of my history for those who don't know.

Late in 2009, I began to get stiffness in my lower back. I'd never had anything wrong before apart from the odd cough or cold, and certainly no back/joint pain. Over the course of three months, the stiffness got more painful and seemed to be felt deep in the lower back (rather than a superficial stiffness if that makes sense!). The pain was particularly bad in the mornings, and made worse by rest. The pain gradually spread to other joints - hips, knees, ankles, shoulders, wrists, fingers, arms, neck etc. I also got terrible pain on the base of my heels. It got very painful to sit down (and stand up!), and about April last year, the pain was so bad, I could barely get out of bed. The GP's suggestions of glandular fever, vertigo and sciatica didn't seem to fit. All blood tests normal except for a slightly elevated bilirubin and ALT.

Pain began to stop me doing everyday things too. Saw a rheumy at the beginning of August (effectively on a private basis, but arranged by a charity, so no fee - I was very lucky!) who was pretty sure it was AS (he'd done a lot of research into it) or something like it. Had to go back to GP (charity only pay for the consultation) who thought this was nonsense, but agreed to refer me to NHS rheumy. He said it was simple backache cause by carrying my instruments around (interesting diagnosis considering I play the flute!). Had MRI last month. Now go through periods of OK, and then bad flare-ups. Pain in wrists and ankles has been particularly bad recently. I don't sleep well anymore as I'm woken nearly every night at 4am with such intense stiffness I have to get up and stretch/move about. I'm completely lacking in energy and have been so tired etc. etc.

I'm prepared to accept it's not AS, but I can't see how simply backache can explain all my other symptoms...

I've had another note this morning from the hospital to say that the MRI showed up a 'small disc problem' and so physiotherapy would be useful. The real insult is that it says that I can cancel the physiotherapy appointment they send through if my symptoms settle!!!!!!! After over 13 months, I don't think they're suddenly going to dissapear! This morning, I feel as bad as I did about 9 months ago.

David


Suffering back, joint and, heel pain and stiffness; tiredness and lack of energy; red and warm joints; much clicking and cracking of joints etc. for four years. Current DX: fibromyalgia

Sometime music teacher and composer, PhD student
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