Kickas.org Forums Ankylosing Spondylitis General Discussion #1 AS Web Support Group What to do about healthcare? Can it be fixed?

Hi Yall...I'm going to throw my two-cents in here...but just so you know, I've already put on a suit of armor, so bashing will do no good.... Okay, I'm financially responsible for repairing my car if it breaks...my home and the KAlypso as well....I'm responsible for the vet bills if the dogs need to go, so why would I not be financially responsible for my own body? I think those that can afford to either buy insurance or pay their own medical bills, should have to do one or the other...but I think the biggest problem is that we've got too many young healthy people on public assistance and their children are on it too and the children's father isn't supporting his own children....if they would tighten the reins on just that group, make them work and take care of the children that they decided to have, it would not only bring down the unemployment rate and boost the economy, we would find a multi-billion dollar surplus in the bank, plenty enough money to take care of those that truly can't work or afford to buy insurance or pay their medical bills but of course we'll have to hire more cops and build more prisons because the crime rate will go up, simply because some have no pride and they'd rather steal what someone else has worked very hard to get, instead of working for it....sadly we now have to support not only ours but theirs too....

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.... a significant enough portion of the population doesn't want this particular version of change (national health insurance plan)

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But still a minority from what the polls say, it seems. I think a lot of people who are against it now will be the first in line once it's implemented. Voting is today isn't it?

I'm sorry if the "bashing" tone has come from me at all, I don't want that tone to be here. If it has, I am a very sarcastic person and I use it to explain things too often. I really hope to not offend while I type!

I guess now we're talking about the difference between rights and privileges. Those things you speak of are definitely privileges. I guess it may be over determining if access to a country wide health care system is a right or a privilege? IMO a healthy life is a right and can increase a country's productivity as a side effect! In other opinions I guess its a privilege.

Then you should have the 'right' to say, "umm, personally, I'm not going to pay for the war America's in, my neighbour can pay for it if he's for it." "I don't think crashing stuff into the moon is the 'in' thing to do, maybe the next thing NASA comes up with I'll help fund."

...back to the "free" point...

P.S. I hope that didn't come across as bashing or preachy

Personally, I'm not one to follow polls, nor am I good at finding or paying attention to them. However, this information seems to be relatively recent. Most of it seems to indicate that there are more "oppose" responses compared to "favor" responses when folks are asked about the Obama/Dem ideas of universal health care. The numbers, however, do change similar to the direction of the wind. What I found interesting is that (if you scroll down to the NBC/WSJ poll) folks find any proposal coming from Repubs as, if not more, heinous than what is being proposed by Dems. Therefore, I can only come to the conclusion that they all need to be voted out and replaced with legislators that work in the interest of the public.

Poll Information

Yes, debate opens today and may come to a vote on the floor of the House. That is just the House bill though, not a final bill.

I probably concur with you in that some of the people against it will be the early in the queue to sign up as the main thing to which they will pay attention is cost. Many of these folks don't understand what benefits they have through a current plan/policy, yet will be willing to switch based on the presumption of equal or greater benefit for less cost. There will also be some that oppose it that really won't have a choice if their employers abolish their current plans with a health insurer to sign up on a government plan.

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IMO a healthy life is a right

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I'm not going to get into some kine of urination match regarding whether or not a health life is a right or privilege. Personally, I struggle to classify it as either and could lead arguments for/against both. It is, however, a responsibility.

Who bears the responsibility for an individual that lazes around day after day, shoveling the worst food into the body, and generally neglecting care for self resulting in some kind of lifestyle disease/disorder (e.g. certain types of diabetes, heart problems, hypertension, obesity)? It shouldn't be the public. Therefore, if you neglect self, do you really have a right to a healthy life? This does not apply to circumstances beyond an individual's control, but if you knowingly and repeatedly abuse/neglect your body, why is that my problem?

Also, I think you should be the poster boy for NASA. You seem to enjoy when they crash large hunks of metal into the moon.

Hi Jaybird:

I think you are totally right to be taking the time to making some predictions about the kind of scenarios that will likely be taking place here if a universal health care plan is passed

We will undoubtedly be hearing new stories about lazy people who have the ability to work, and will be even less motivated to do so if they get health care services, there will be some that say to themselves: "why go out and get a job to get health care benefits if now I can just go see a doctor for free?"

And I've listened to talk radio shows where they emphasize the abuse that takes place today in some of our other existing social services, stories about the "welfare queens" that pull up to the social service offices in limousines, wearing expensive clothes, to pick up their unemployment checks

I wish it could be possible to enact precise legislation that would target those kind of people perfectly, and although maybe after a few years of seeing what takes place, amendments and changes to the laws could do a better job of it, but it will be impossible to prevent all of that, and there WILL be resentment from the people who are hard-working and angry that a portion of their tax money is going to those lazy good-for-nothings

but right now, it's just gone absurdly far the OTHER way, we've got instead way too many stories about the CEO's of the insurance companies getting huge salaries, for instance, Ron Williams, CEO of Aetna in 2008 taking home $24,300,112

Williams 2008 compensation

and way, way too many stories about people getting dropped from their coverage, denied access to health care from these companies, when if you read their histories, it's immediately obvious that it happened for no other reason than it wasn't profitable to keep processing their monthly payments

and check out this one, regarding how much more US citizens pay for the SAME services, and the quote saying ""Our Lipitor must be four to ten times a good as the Lipitor that Canadians take."

Comparison of health care costs

Interesting polls but I like the one where people are asked "Do you approve or disapprove of the way Democrats/Republicans in Congress are handling health care?"
Huge disapproval, a failure to communicate.

The bill just got passed (like a couple of seconds ago)- squeaker!!! Just wanted to be the first to post. I told you I watch this play out every night!

Health Care reform is long overdue in this country. I don't agree with much of the bill but I applaud a group that is finally attacking the problem and we are seeing real progress toward reform for a change.

Like it or hate it there is momentum there now to fix the mess we have now.

Personally I see this as a win for the majority in the US and a defeat for the very vocal minorities.