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Joined: Mar 2007
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Quote:

...more like letting more people drive the car.




Is this like allowing more chefs in the kitchen? If so, that may not be a desirable thing.


Quote:

Also, couldn't Americans have thrown some of the 700 billion into this and jump started the economy while helping the sick?




Yes (to build upon Dean's sentiment). We also could have spent a couple of trillion dollars on health care instead of a couple of endless wars that have resulted in too much death and destruction.


Kind Regards,
Jay

Almost all of us long for peace and freedom; but very few of us have much enthusiasm for the thoughts, feelings, and actions that make for peace and freedom. - Aldous Huxley

Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. - Thomas Jefferson
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Moose kick! Yes Yes and Yes- would you like to run for president?- great idea!


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Point is that the US spends more per person on healthcare than any other country in the world. Yet the US is only rated about 20th best in terms of medical outcomes. The system is broken and has been a dud for quite awhile, we are spending more and getting less than any other advanced country in the world. No it needs a new engine and very badly. Leaving it alone will bankrupt this country rather quickly and unlike most wars there is no end in sight to increasing medical bills and spiraling insurance costs.

Throwing more money into a system as inefficient as ours is lunacy. While I agree that the war in Irag was a huge waste of money, it was money the US did not have in the first place. Just spending it elsewhere, while a better use of the money, is still a huge expense we can't afford.

The system in only the envy by the wealthy in other countries not the average citizen.

Last edited by drizzit; 10/20/09 12:04 AM.

No families take so little medicine as those of doctors, except those of apothecaries.

Oliver Wendell Holmes
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agreement from me, Drizzit!

Here's that chart again that I linked to before, from 2006 World Health Organization

It doesn't have a rating about which country of the 5 compared is "best" (I guess that could be considered an opinion) but it does show amount spent per capita, and what the life expectancy numbers are:



Dow
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yep and the GDP number will get worse until our primary government expense in the US Is healthcare. It will crush this country's economy unless it get retooled and very soon. Throwing more money at what we have now is just not an option

Last edited by drizzit; 10/20/09 12:06 AM.

No families take so little medicine as those of doctors, except those of apothecaries.

Oliver Wendell Holmes
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Thanks for sharing. I think for the rest of it I will stay out of the politics on this forum. Now get me in a room alone and..... I do have my opinions but I think the admin probably doesn't want us to go there.

Blessings. I am glad you have good care. May we all.

Possi




Possi
*********************************************************

RUN WHEN YOU CAN,
WALK IF YOU HAVE TO,
CRAWL IF YOU MUST,
JUST NEVER EVER GIVE UP!



"A FRIEND HEARS THE SONG IN YOUR HEART AND SINGS IT TO YOU WHEN YOU CAN'T REMEMBER THE WORDS."

"A FRIEND LOOKS THROUGH YOUR BROKEN FENCE TO ADMIRE YOUR FLOWERS."

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Most of us in the US don't understand that either. How we can pay more per person than any other country in the world and still have well over 1 million americans travel to other countries to get medical procedures done they can't afford in the US. I suspect more americans travel overseas for medical care than canadians travel to the US.

Heck they are even calling it a medical vacation and whole travel agencies set them up for americans to foreign hospitals


No families take so little medicine as those of doctors, except those of apothecaries.

Oliver Wendell Holmes
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...and all the people that travel over the border to get the same medicine that they would pay much more for in the US!

I've mentioned before that my wife and I worked on a documentary for PBS called "Critical Condition" that told the story of several people that got lost in our health system, all of them were employed and hard working, but didn't have plans that covered their medical problems, it's a difficult film to watch

One of the stories was about Carlos, a chef in a Los Angeles French restaurant, diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis, with very developed spinal fusion. At one point he drives to Mexico, and buys a prescription drug at a pharmacy on a street corner, and pays about 3 dollars compared to the $90 (I forgot the exact price, sorry) that he normally paid for the SAME drug in Los Angeles

He had gone to Mexico to consider a surgery to help him straighten his spine, and help him breathe better, because of the AS, but when they told him it would cost $40,000, he knew there was no way he could raise that kind of money

But ultimately, he got a lucky turn, in a way, and here's something that we can be proud of as Americans, despite our lack of national coverage:

A doctor at UCLA met Carlos at a free health fair, knew he was in real trouble, and with the help of the publicity generated by the film as it was being made, arranged to get Carlos that same surgery. For free. It was estimated that the difficult complex procedure (similar to Alan on this forum wrote about?) would have cost $300,000 in private practice

The other three stories in the film don't have such happy endings, unfortunately. I look forward to a time when we don't hear about (or actually live through) stories like this!

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I'm not against health insurance reform. I said that from the get-go. However, those numbers in that table can be misleading because they don't tell the whole picture.

I've seen a comment or two wowing about Mexico's health care system. I'm not here to disparage their health care system, but their infant mortality rate per 1,000 is over four times that of the U.S. Now the U.S. is double that of Japan, which I also find quite shocking. I wonder if that may be attributable to the lifestyle of the mother or both the mother and the father. While the Netherlands, Canada, and Japan have longer lifespans, it is not that surprising. I guess what I'm wondering is if this has more to do with lifestyle (e.g. diet, exercise, reliance on self, etc.) than medical systems. I mean, I am of the impression that folks from Japan and the Netherlands are overall more active than those of the U.S. I also have the impression that most Japanese maintain a rather healthy diet (at least in contrast to the Standard American Diet). I suppose something similar must hold true for Canada as three years of additional life is pretty significant.

While I don't doubt that access to health insurance has some influence on these figures, I find it hard to draw conclusions based on the information presented.

Also, a question for our Canadian participants. I was of the impression that your healthcare was 100% covered. However, this chart only states that it is 70% covered. Please help me understand.


Kind Regards,
Jay

Almost all of us long for peace and freedom; but very few of us have much enthusiasm for the thoughts, feelings, and actions that make for peace and freedom. - Aldous Huxley

Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. - Thomas Jefferson
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We pay for doctors notes for work (10$) medicals for certain drivers licences (about $40), umm prescriptions, dental work, plastic surgery (enhancement), but most companies have that covered for you. Once I was diagnosed with AS, I got approved for the trillium fund. Its more government stuff. I think I actually did fill out one paper, sorry. But now I have drug coverage from the government.

I have one more question, everbody talking about waste and spending- arent you guys spending money on yourselves? Like, say you have a guy who has heart monitors, and you need a heart monitor, you give the guy $$ for the monitor, then you have the monitor and he has the $$. Now you've just helped stimulate the economy no? I don't get this "waste and spending" Idea. You're not buying healthcare from China and Russia are you?


Hey, somebody stole my quote! - Me
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