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#267787 09/22/07 12:16 PM
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joeas Offline OP
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i've had pain for about three years now and have just been diagnosed as having AS. i'm on a strict vegetarian diet but am willing to try out the NSD-(must avoid drugs). does anyone have advice on vegetarian combined with NSD diets?- am willing to include fish if this is not possible, but no other animal products.

much appreciated

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Hello and glad you found Kickas.

Can it be done... I guess so, I recall a few posters over the years that have combined the two diets. You can search on the forum to try and find the posts, but they are probably 2-3 yrs old.

Personally I would not recommend, seems eliminating too many foods in my opinion and the NSD diet relies on fat/protein for fuel.

I am assuming you can include nuts.... some nuts that can include on diet are walnuts, almonds, brazil nuts, pepitas. How about eggs? Fish is good, but a very light protein source.

Dragonslayor may offer better advice, he was once a vegetarian.

Tim


AS may win some battles, but I will win the war.

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AS Czar
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WELCOME, joeas:

Quote:

does anyone have advice on vegetarian combined with NSD diets?- am willing to include fish if this is not possible, but no other animal products.




Please don't attempt the NSD while being vegetarian--I tried it for the last of the 23 years total I was a vegetarian and almost got diabetes from the experience trying to keep my energy levels up...

At least fish--salmon, tuna, tilapia, cod, trout, bass--should help very much, but I still avoid pork (it is NOT the 'other' white meat!) and eat small amounts of steak and hamburger but often rely upon starch-free turkey or chicken dogs. It is Ok and even healthful to eat tofu on occasion, but I eat no more than one serving of this weekly.

The NSD should not become a fat-heavy diet, which is not particularly healthful, but a balanced diet with emphasis on raw vegetables, plenty of natural fruits, and occasional cooked meals that include some good protein source. Good things often overlooked are nuts, sprouts, raisins/dates, a snack of dark chocolate, and it is important to take concord grape juice (unsweetened) about 3X daily 6-8oz to avoid carb withdrawal.

Please keep us posted with your experiences and questions.

Much renewed HEALTH to You in far greater amounts than anticipated by self-effort,
John

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joeas Offline OP
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thanks for the feedback
dragonslayor, can i clarify with you, that after trying a vegetarian NSD you included fish and then later beef, chicken and turkey. and also, how important is it to eat raw veg and only a few cooked meals/week?

i'm considering starting with fish, nuts, eggs, soya mince and tofu (occasionally) as my main protein source.

greatful new member,
joe

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Hi, joe:

I approached NSD first trying to remain vegetarian, and I combined antibiotics with strict NSD early on, so I was unable to remain a very accurate estimator of foods that are generally dangerous. To keep my energy levels up, I ate sugary things, even candy despite the fact I had no especial love for such 'treats.' In fact, I almost force myself to eat chocolate today--it is dense and just hypersweet, but keeps me satiated in small quantities. After eating some date ice cream my wife could not finish, I began to feel uneasy and just 'weird,' not being careful that I had already had a date milkshake--oblivious to total the sugar content. After that, I developed a considerable thirst, and measured my blood sugar at 130 fasting, which is high-borderline diabetes. While on antibiotics, stuff like 'maltodexterin' and guar gum did not seem to bother me, but I have avoided them totally while not taking these drugs anymore (on a regular basis).

Replacing starch with sugar for energy is the wrong approach, but we do need a little sugar as kindling, but a lot of protein for the primary heat, and some fats for longevity, to use a bonfire as the model.

I decided to first begin with tuna fish, then chicken and turkey which helped very much, then added salmon and other fish, especially after finding out that tofu is not especially good for us in large quantities. It was another year before I was able to add beef to my regimen--and the very first steak I ate was at a KickAS lunch with Ebringer, who years before had instructed me to "order a STEAK!" instead of the Cesar salad I had settled on. I still limit beef servings, and avoid pork altogether, getting most of my protein from tuna and turkey or chicken (these last two mostly in the form of starch-free hot dogs). At first, on the NSD for about a year, I lost weight, but after about two years I began to gain weight--even doing total Atkins continually! I am a fat-hoarder, I guess...

So, that was the evolution of my own reintroduction of meats--something I once believed nearly impossible.

More related to your question, it is very important to eat a raw salad daily, but cooked vegetables--those which are safe--can be taken daily as well--it is balance and that balance might be an equal raw to cooked ratio. I often eat sprouts for enzymes--it is vegetable enzymes that are more important to us than fruit enzymes--albeit both are important--and are inactivated or denatured by heating.

I don't know what soya mince is, but tofu is usually safe while most soya products are not safe. I once had a terrible flare after drinking a protein shake with 'soya isolate.' The eggs, fish, and nuts could be sufficient for protein sources; I would stick with these and avoid the soy products for a while, being sure to test everything that you are uncertain about with iodine.

Best to You,
John

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I would avoid too much fish especially tuna because of mercury. I avoid it like the plague now after finding out I had high levels present. Nuts or coconut are not good in my opinion because of extremly high levels of copper unless you just eat occasionally like a snack (sub 30g) and zinc rich foods should be concentrated on i.e. meat, maybe well cooked, stews, broths etc because your stomach may struggle with low acid levels. Soy foods will just damage your thyroid, metabolism and will leech minerals esp zinc unless properly fermented the traditional way i.e the japanese way not the supermarket approach.

Phil

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joeas Offline OP
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thanks so much, john, for your support.

some definite things to be aware/careful of.
i'll document the progress of this diet and let the group know how it goes.

thanks again,
joe

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Coconut oil will help with energy if your not getting enough fats. Would you eat dairy and eggs? Just go for the healthier for you and the environment, organic & pasteured (grass fed).

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joeas Offline OP
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thanks for the coconut oil advice.
i eat dairy and eggs at present, but when i start the NSD i hear that dairy should be intially excluded and so i am considering leaving it out for the first month - any suggestions on this?

joe

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Quote:


i eat dairy and eggs at present, but when i start the NSD i hear that dairy should be intially excluded and so i am considering leaving it out for the first month - any suggestions on this?





I can eat eggs - never had any inflammation from them.

Dairy.. I can't eat most dairy as it causes inflammation. however yoghurt is fine.


what I can eat on the diet (click here) -- my blog -- contact me (PM is broken)
"Some men, in truth, live that they may eat, as the irrational creatures, 'whose life is their belly, and nothing else.' But the Instructor enjoins us to eat that we may live." -- Clement of Alexandria (about 200 AD)

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