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sarahk Offline OP
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This is a great forum. I've lurked here a lot but this is my first post. I don't have AS but a good friend of mine might. He's in the process of getting a diagnosis. I do have IBS and am trying to learn all I can about the NSD for both of us. I hope I'll be welcome here.

A little background: I developed IBS in May while taking a round of Flagyl for a minor infection. It made me really sick. After finishing the Flagyl my gut problems only got worse until I ended up in the ER for pain and bloating. I believe I now have SIBO (small intestine bacterial overgrowth).

The only thing I've found that helps is a starch-free diet, or taking carb-blockers if I do have to eat some starchy foods. For example, carrot juice agrees with me but I can't eat cooked carrots. For supplements I'm taking Saccharomyces Boulardii, Primal Defense, and Pancreatic enzymes between meals, along with starch-free multi-vitamins. I'm largely pain-free on this regimen.

I'm confused about the use of Coconut in the diet. The food list I found on this site says to avoid it, but in the forum I've found links to recipes that use shredded coconut and coconut flour. Are there some people whom it helps, and others whom it hurts?

Similar question about Vinegar. Some say to avoid it, others say to eat homemade sauerkraut every day. Can anyone shed some insight on this?

Thank you very much!

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Hi Sarah - Some people with AS, who are following the NSD diet, have problems tolerating some foods because they also have a fungus overgrowth called Candida. Mostly sugar, including dairy and fruit has to be avoided in addition to the starch. Shredded coconut or coconut flour contains some natural sugar and the vinegar is also not recommended for the Candida diet, also nuts also (due to possible mold content). Coconut oil on the other hand is an anti-fungal and is recommended for fungal overgrowth.

The sauerkraut they are talking about is fermented naturally, with no vinegar. You can do a search for recipes and instructions on making your own or I buy it at a health food store.

I hope this helps, and welcome to our group.

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Hi Sarah,

Yes you are welcome here of course and good to here the diet has helped you out.

Upon first reading your post, I figured that probiotics were required for you since it sounds like you had a round of antibiotics and problems occurred afterwards. Buy see you are using Primal Defense (if you did not know... individual that started company wrote the book "The Maker's Diet and talks about his road to recovery).

Not everyone responds exactly the same to all foods, about 80-90% is the same for most of us, the last 10-20% is fringe foods and may be different between individuals depending on GI health (degree have leaky gut), food allergies, genetic makeup... body is so complex probably many more variables.

Vinegar - I can use... but I use on salads 2-3 times a week at most. Is acidic and I found if I ate more often, then I can have issues. I believe the acidity disrupted ph in my intestines.

Have tried cocunut on only a few occasions (as part of a desert). No issues, but only ate very sparingly.

Sauerkraut - never any issues... great for probiotics (make sure real sauerkraut and probably best to make your own).

Tim


AS may win some battles, but I will win the war.

KONK - Keep ON Kicking
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sarahk Offline OP
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Thank you both so much!

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Hi Sarah, nice to meet you.....

Yes, cooked carrots are starchy so I'm not surprised you have trouble with them. Have you got Carol Sinclair's book "The IBS Low Starch Diet"? She explains how when vegetables are eaten raw the starch is locked away in the cells and passed undigested thru the body. When cooked, the cells are broken down and the starch is released. Something like that anyway, she explains it better in the book.

Unless you have a problem with candida as Jeanne mentioned, then vinegar is fine to eat. My hubby has balsamic vinegar as a dressing on his salads.

Coconut is starch free and perfectly harmless and actually very beneficial for all to eat. It's great for cleaning out the gut as it's so high in fibre and also the oil it contains has antibacterial and antifungal properties. It's good to have a source of fibre like this on the NSD considering typical sources of fibre eg bread are removed from the diet.

The "Foods to Avoid" list is somewhat customized to the person that wrote it. Perhaps he had trouble with coconut at one stage for some reason.

If in doubt, break out the iodine and test.

All the best
Chelsea


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Steel_AS_Kicker
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Vinegar is a mixed bag - if the literature has it right.
The bacteria we all want - the good guys - are all acid and salt tolerant which is why food is "preserved" in vinegar (as acetic or malic acid) or with salt, sometimes both. Funny isnt it that the stomach is acid and uses salt to make its hydrochloric acid...
Vinegar, especially apple cider vinegar, has useful phytonutrients like boron, but it is helpfully acid in the early gut and its breakdown products are more alkaline further down which is EXACTLY what our GIT prefers.

It is the source of the vinegar that has some pundits uneasy as it is usually produced with or via a YEAST process (from wine or cider). It has bad press from people with candida or with other yeast overgrowths. I have not been able to get a good explanation of this logic so i remain ignorant and happy as vinegar is one of my main tonics and although i have a sugar habit at times, i don't think i have candida albacans in abundance.
However, there are things some can take and some just cannot as we all have different enzymes, different gut flora, different areas of gut damage etc. etc.
Natural sauerkraut is naturally sour (meaning acid) from the bacteria spp which ferment the cabbage sugars. Vinegar has nothing to do with the bacterial process. If SOME vinegar was used, less species of bacteria would be available - if any. Salt is used to filter out the spoiling bacteria spp. The distinctive smell of real sauerkraut is from esters produced along the way - they are OK for us in this quantity and environment.


Ted


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Warrior_AS_Kicker
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Sorry no real advise on the NSD! But I wanted to say welcome to KA !!!!

Scotty...

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Welcome, sarahk:

Shreaded coconut often has added flour, to dry the pieces and keep them from sticking together. Raw coconut--and in other safe and unadulterated forms is quite good for us.

Women, in particular, but also anyone wishing to heal themselves, should not eat very much vinegar (acetic acid) since it somewhat interferes with red blood cells (it causes hemolysis or destruction of these). Apple cider vinegar (malic acid) does not have the same effect, and is much safer (and otherwise healthful) than rice or wine varieties, although still has some percentage of acetic acid.

I have found that enteric-coated (NOW brand) oregano oil can help with dysbiosis very much, but also walnuts--and even the combination of "green" black walnut husks, wormwood, and oil of cloves--followed with colloidal silver--can take the place of most intestinal cleansings.

Of course you have come to the right place, and I hope that this forum will help you and your friend with possible AS,

John

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sarahk Offline OP
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Thank you all so much. I really appreciate the insights. Now, I just hope my reply here shows up in the right place, lol!

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Personally I believe the immune system and stomach acid is low because people are defiecient in zinc caused by mercury in most cases and enzymes are not working correctly. I think people would get better by following a zinc rich diet and avoiding high copper foods. I would be interested to see how well those are over a year who ate high copper foods like coconut flour, nuts etc compared to those who ate meat, veg, oils etc. I for one am now eating rice, white potatoes, goat dairy and occasional bread focusing on this approach. So I would recomend avoiding it. Check out how much copper is present in food using the USDA tool people are probably even eating over the RDA.

Phil

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