Originally Posted By: Jaybird

This is an interesting portion of your post. Can I make the assumption that you truly believe that one party is less evil than the other? You don't really need to answer that question as it strays from our topic, but it is interesting nonetheless.

At the risk of coming across as hypocritical, yes, that is generally what I've observed.

Senator Lieberman, of course, who does have a "D" on his name keeps appearing in the news as one of the most against health care reform, contradicting himself constantly, and making us question his motives

I think the day that I became the most cynical about the process, is when I sat down and watched C-SPAN, when the issue before them was whether or not the phone companies would be liable for the illegal wiretapping that took place during W's administration

I watched senator after senator make speeches on the subject, and remember thinking that many of the arguments from BOTH sides made sense, the words they said sounded logical, they clearly seemed to be considering the moral and legal consequences of what was before them

and then it came time for the actual vote, the part of this process that would determine the actual outcome

every R, even the ones who had vocally expressed that what had happened was indeed wrong, voted the criminal allegations down, completely in lockstep with each other

and the D's were mixed, but more for holding the phone companies accountable

And I sat in stunned silence, still realizing that I still didn't understand completely how this all worked

Then someone explained to me, one of the reasons that it happens is because they all have to answer to their leaders, that if they vote against the interests of their party, it could very well lead to a problem next time they are up for election, and need funding and support for their campaign contributions...

so after I recovered from that, I mainly have concluded that the STRENGTH of the R party is that they work as a single entity, and the WEAKNESS of the D party, is that they come at it with a variety of opinions, often arguing among themselves..

Idealists like Dennis Kuccinich, who I have a lot of respect for, but recognize that when he voted DOWN the recent health care bill that passed, because it wasn't as strong as he wanted, he was doing it out of principle, but it only weakened the best proposal that existed at the time

Originally Posted By: Jaybird
Well, they are considered the "rich" aren't they? Based on the logic of the Dems, the rich are supposed to pay for everything (whether they be bombs [war tax] or social programs [healthcare]).

No definitely not "everything." Just simply think that the tax cuts to the rich that took place in the last admin, and the unfair advantages that corporations received (i.e. Halliburton being permitted to avoid taxes by claiming their corporate headquarters, were offshore, in the Cayman islands, where they had little more than a P.O. Box) were just too much

led to the huge deficit and borrowing money from the Chinese that we are paying off now

and we know that the famous "trickle down" theory that supposes that when the rich are richer, that everyone eventually benefits, simply doesn't work, both Reagan and the two Bush eras left us with a poorer Federal budget, and a widening of the gap between the rich and the poor

Remember that Clinton left us with an actual SURPLUS

so would like to see the balance return to that now, not just a better handling of the purse strings, but proper enforcement of the laws that already exist

Originally Posted By: Jaybird
The people that need it most wouldn't likely have a need if their money had stayed in their hands from the start. I think the money would be better in the hands of the people that actually earn it, as opposed to say, the government. Also, who determines need?

good question! I dunno. If you asked me or Kat, we might put a higher emphasis on things that other people see as non-important, like the arts, or if you asked a farmer, he'd say a different thing, or an urban planner another thing again. But at this particular point in history, with people literally dying that could be saved due to lack of medicine and health care, I think many of us will agree that should be THE priority!