banners
Kickas Main Page | Rights and Responsibilities | Donate to Kickas
Kickas Links
·HOME
·Forums Main Index
·Register!
MEDICAL CENTRE
·Medicine Contract
·AS Patient Guidebook
·Pain Map
·Disease Modification
·Ask your doctor
·AS and RA Papers
·AS Acronyms
DIET CENTRE
·London AS Diet
·Molecular Mimicry
·AS Dietary Primer
·AS Food Guide
SUPPORT CENTRE
·In Memorium
·KickAS Stories
·KickAS Banners
·Donations
Forum Stats
13,271 Registered Members
28 Forums
43,625 Topics
517,739 Posts

Most users ever online: 1,568 @ 06/29/16 03:25 PM
Newest Members
BriellaAllen, katherindsmith, Kwinkster, SoCalDreamin69, captain_mehedi
13271 Registered Users
KickAs Team
Administrator/owner:
John (Dragonslayer)
Administrator:
Melinda (mig)
WebAdmin:
Timo (Timo)
Administrator:
Brad (wolverinefan)

Moderators:
- Tim (Dotyisle)
- Chelsea (Kiwi)
- Megan (Megan)
- Wendy (WendyR)
- John (Cheerful)
- Chris (fyrfytr187)

QR Code
If you want to use this QR code (Quick Response code) just save the image and paste it where you want. You can even print it and use it that way. Coffee cups, T-Shirts etc would all be good for the QR code.
Topic Options
#518426 - 03/14/18 05:15 PM Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease
babuka Offline
Lurker

Registered: 01/02/18
Posts: 1
There is a paper published several days ago on gut bacteria and autoimmune disease. Any thoughts on this?


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/03/180308143102.htm

Top
#518445 - 03/16/18 01:18 AM Re: Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease [Re: babuka]
Robin_H Offline
Third_Degree_AS_Kicker

Registered: 09/13/15
Posts: 288
Loc: Central Canada
The notion that gut bacteria can escape from the gut lumen and into the organs to form biofilms that evade the immune system is old news. Perforated guts that allow infection to get established in the peritoneum is not unheard of.

But just like having found the gene for male pattern baldness decades ago doctor still don't know what to do with it in cases of chronic illness when the microbe is not detectable.

In the past few months I have posted in these forums that our gut microbiota communicates with the reneged bacteria in our organs and I hypothesized that people that do not benefit from a NSD diet have extremely large populations of renegade bacteria in their organ tissue. High gut permeability, mast cell proliferation, and as many other factors that the imagination can conjure probably are good hypothesis too.

In the summer of 2015 I told the head of rheumatology at my favourite hospital that I believed that the use of NSAIDs allowed gut microbes to escape and get into my body resulting in spinal inflammation and other symptoms of AS. She said to me, "Yes. There are good bugs and there are bad bugs. I can get you to a doctor that can help you."

The look on her face and demeanor in her voice disturbed me. She promptly referred me to a psychiatrist. I hope to meet her in Hell. I have some bones to pick with her (for thousands of years!)

It is possible that many pathogens colonize our gut all our life but do not cause problems until the gut integrity is lost and the pathogen finds its way into our body. After that I think that targeted IV antibiotics is the best way to go to avoid damaging the gut biota. I wish a skin patch worked instead of a PICC line. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3lwhL4rEaA

Locating, identifying and specifically targeting microbes in humans is in its infancy. Within the past year using radio-tracers that are highly preferred by certain bacteria were used in a human experiment. The bacteria were located using PET. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/10/171005111111.htm

I have noticed heavy use of IVs in small clinics in some Asian countries. I don't know what is in it but I do know that they are often going for treatments to lower inflammation.
_________________________
HLA-B27 neg, vague AS symptoms in 20s and early 30s
1993:fibromyalgia (age 25)
2013.07:Reverse blockage in a SCUBA accident
2013.08:Scratched by a sick cat
2013.09:Strange sore throat then meningitis
2014:Chronic inflammation at the base of the skull
2014 to early 2015:excess NSAID use developed complete axial inflammation, included psoriasis
NSD helped well and but was not perfect
2018.07: weak +'ve tests for borrelia, babesia, bartonella and mycoplasma pneumonia using Armin Lab, ANA=equivocal

Top
#518446 - 03/16/18 01:51 AM Re: Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease [Re: babuka]
Robin_H Offline
Third_Degree_AS_Kicker

Registered: 09/13/15
Posts: 288
Loc: Central Canada
On a related note...

South Med J. 2007 Apr;100(4):366-70.
Treatment of ankylosing spondylitis with moxifloxacin.

"The relationship between AS and enterobacteria, especially Klebsiella pneumoniae, has been reported from several groups in several countries. We performed an open-label trial of moxifloxacin, a fluoroquinolone antibiotic, in patients with ankylosing spondylitis. Treatment with moxifloxacin resulted in significant and sustained improvement. "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17458395
_________________________
HLA-B27 neg, vague AS symptoms in 20s and early 30s
1993:fibromyalgia (age 25)
2013.07:Reverse blockage in a SCUBA accident
2013.08:Scratched by a sick cat
2013.09:Strange sore throat then meningitis
2014:Chronic inflammation at the base of the skull
2014 to early 2015:excess NSAID use developed complete axial inflammation, included psoriasis
NSD helped well and but was not perfect
2018.07: weak +'ve tests for borrelia, babesia, bartonella and mycoplasma pneumonia using Armin Lab, ANA=equivocal

Top
#518510 - 03/26/18 09:32 AM Re: Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease [Re: Robin_H]
AlpineAg Offline
New_Member

Registered: 01/30/18
Posts: 13
Hi Robin,

This time last year I was in a world of gut pain. I was waking at 4am with lower stomach aches which would recur throughout the day. It persisted for a couple of months.

I had a colonoscopy and endoscopy - both came back clear of the major nasties, although my intestinal villi were flattened (often associated with celiac disease but my tests came back clear). No ulcers, no Helicobacter, no bleeding. The Gastro shrugged his shoulders and said something like "meh, who knows" and I was cast adrift.

I started on Alflorex, a probiotic produced here in Ireland: my GP recommended it. I thought, "what's another €30." It cleared up my 4am pains.

Immediately.

For a month or so.

Then they started again.

I switched to another probiotic with different strains of bacteria - success again, for a month or so.

In January, I stopped taking anti-inflammatories (meloxicam) as we are trying to conceive. My AS came back at me with all the inflammation it could muster. It was excruciating.

Then, slowly things changed. My pain reduced to the same level as when I was on anti-inflammatories. I could manage it effectively, but not totally, with paracetamol and exercise.

And my stomach started to mend itself. It's been six weeks since I woke at 4am with stomach pains. I can eat normal, healthy foods again (read: whatever I want). I don't get constipation anymore. No more unexplained cramps. No more chronic reflux.

Life and health are complicated. I underwent radon treatment in February. I'm still taking varied probiotics. I don't know if my sustained gastrointestinal recovery is due to one or all of these factors but I do know that I feel significantly better 9 weeks after I stopped taking anti-inflammatories.

I know it's scary to throw out the old faithfuls but after the initial flare, I've had nothing but improved gut health and a sense of freedom from those little pills. It may not help everyone. I'm sure your doctor won't agree. But for me, it was the right thing to do. For now, at least.

I hope that the future brings more specific research directed at anti-inflammatories and their influence on gut health, in the meantime, we have some science to draw on a whole lot of anecdotal evidence. We can only share our stories - and that one is mine!

Cheers, Ag
_________________________
HLA B27 +ve. Localised pain in SI joints, lumbar and thoracic spine. No swelling. Eyes OK, peripheral joints OK. NSAID usage from 2005 to 2018, meloxicam.

Least favourite saying: No Pain No Gain.

2005 - Diagnosed after two years of debilitating SI pain, early 20's
2017 - Waitlist for rheumatologist in Ireland=14-months
2018 - Seeking alternatives

Top
#519580 - 04/10/19 10:14 PM Re: Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease [Re: Robin_H]
tvmanjon Offline
New_Member

Registered: 01/24/19
Posts: 7
Loc: Michigan
Robin,
I also came across the Moxifloxacin study in the past but couldn't find anything else on it. Have you? It seems to have died on the vine.

Top
#519585 - 04/19/19 09:47 PM Re: Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease [Re: Robin_H]
tvmanjon Offline
New_Member

Registered: 01/24/19
Posts: 7
Loc: Michigan
Robin Have you heard anymore about its use?

Top

Who's Online
0 registered (), 89 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Recent Posts
Current Issues w A.S. Diet
by Auggie
04/11/19 08:54 AM
1 year with ea, thanks for being there
by yovafranc
04/04/19 06:05 PM
3 month NSD, still no results, sad and annoyed
by Bazel
04/03/19 02:47 PM
AS/autoimmune link to mental illness?
by Didier
03/29/19 12:22 PM
Unidentified right arm problems
by mutagen
03/27/19 01:27 PM
Can AS cause gastritis and duodenitis?!
by Has777
03/26/19 04:39 AM
Total remission of my AS on the Carnivore Diet.
by Mark55
03/19/19 09:51 PM
(Views)Popular Topics
"FITNESS" TEAM! - All Physical Activity & Sports 44,892,946
hmmm 2,255,055
Has anyone had Pedicle subtraction Osteotomy ? 1,886,152
What to do about healthcare? Can it be fixed? 1,279,115
User names revisited 1,026,373
A.S and beds, What do you find best? 961,640
Medicinal Marijuana 949,852
OMG!!!! 891,438
No/Low Starch Diet Success Stories 695,667
THE STARCH CONTENT OF FOODS - THE LIST 475,707