Kickas Main Page | Rights and Responsibilities | Donate to Kickas
Kickas Links
·Forums Main Index
·Medicine Contract
·AS Patient Guidebook
·Pain Map
·Disease Modification
·Ask your doctor
·AS and RA Papers
·AS Acronyms
·London AS Diet
·Molecular Mimicry
·AS Dietary Primer
·AS Food Guide
·In Memorium
·KickAS Stories
·KickAS Banners
Forum Stats
13,611 Registered Members
28 Forums
43,739 Topics
518,466 Posts

Most users ever online: 1,568 @ 06/29/16 02:25 PM
Newest Members
Dayton, Lbrownn1, Nipsy, VictorBN, preseli
13611 Registered Users
KickAs Team
John (Dragonslayer)
Melinda (mig)
Timo (Timo)
Brad (wolverinefan)

- Tim (Dotyisle)
- Chelsea (Kiwi)
- Megan (Megan)
- Wendy (WendyR)
- John (Cheerful)
- Chris (fyrfytr187)

QR Code
If you want to use this QR code (Quick Response code) just save the image and paste it where you want. You can even print it and use it that way. Coffee cups, T-Shirts etc would all be good for the QR code.
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#519248 - 12/07/18 02:30 AM No starch diet CRP open source experiment
GeorgeHolland10 Offline

Registered: 12/04/18
Posts: 3

I'll be brief. I've had AS for 18 years, fused vertebrae, pain all along, uveitis flares. 2 years ago I discovered the low starch diet and miraculously, and to my sceptical disbelief, the pain vanished.

I'm a professional structural engineer, having a scientific mind I've been researching and starting to self experiment after reading everything I can, particularly Alan Ebringers papers.

The only simple indicator of active AS is the level of C reactive protein (CRP) in the blood. Typically this is 6mg/L for normal person, 15 for light AS, 40+ for strong AS.

For the last 4 weeks I've been logging all my food with an Android app called Yazio. This gives a 'reasonable' measure of starch consumption. Once a week I pay for a private blood test . I'd say my strictness for the diet is not great over this period. For the next 4 weeks I'm going super strict, as close to zero starch as possible. Then next 4 weeks eat a heavy starch diet.

I'll post results soon.

My question to the community and the power of the internet, can we make this more scientific and increase the sample size with some more participants?

Edited by GeorgeHolland10 (12/07/18 03:15 AM)

#519250 - 12/07/18 03:22 AM Re: No starch diet CRP open source experiment [Re: GeorgeHolland10]
Cymro Offline

Registered: 11/01/18
Posts: 55
Originally Posted By GeorgeHolland10

My question to the community and the power of the internet, can we make this more scientific and increase the sample size with some more participants?

Just the sort of thing I have wanted but I doubt if you will get the results you want and .expect

#519251 - 12/07/18 06:48 AM Re: No starch diet CRP open source experiment [Re: GeorgeHolland10]
GeorgeHolland10 Offline

Registered: 12/04/18
Posts: 3
Current CRP is consistently 13mg/L for past 3 weeks. One more week and will go to super strict starch free. Exciting to see if anything happens. 2 years ago when I started the diet I was very strict and CRP was at 7.

#519257 - 12/07/18 08:45 AM Re: No starch diet CRP open source experiment [Re: GeorgeHolland10]
vazai Offline

Registered: 11/10/18
Posts: 6
I doubt CRP alone can be used to evaluate the activity of the disease.

I have CRP below 5mg/l but still some pain in my feet.

Still, monitoring CRP frequently could be good to evaluate your inflammation level and maybe diet progress

#519266 - 12/08/18 12:06 PM Re: No starch diet CRP open source experiment [Re: GeorgeHolland10]
Janclebro Offline

Registered: 09/26/16
Posts: 53
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
George you're very brave to volunteer your good health for this experiment. I would be very surprised if you lasted the full four weeks on the heavy starch diet. I also would hate you to undo some of the good that you've achieved, by feeding the bad bacteria again. Why give them the upper hand? Please be careful and don't gamble with your health - it's not worth it in my opinion.
Spondyloarthropathy with symptoms of AS, Sjögrens and fibro. Previously took Celebrex, Methotrexate, Trepiline, Prednisone which seemed to trigger a flare and my illness became much worse. Symptoms now kept mostly under control with NSD, as well as cutting sugar, dairy and yeast and food intolerances. Mostly pain free now and all symptoms massively improved.

#519268 - 12/10/18 02:35 PM Re: No starch diet CRP open source experiment [Re: GeorgeHolland10]
DragonSlayer Offline
AS Czar

Registered: 09/05/01
Posts: 6126
Loc: Reno or SFLU Philippines
Hello, GeorgeHolland10:

I did a similar experiment about 20 years ago, using ESR which in my case was highly indicative of AS activity.

By then I had done several courses of antibiotics, in combination with NSD but I wanted to essentially characterize the corners of my operating window.

It is very difficult to be certain that what we are measuring is a system under "normal" conditions because our gut environment is so dynamic, but in general and over the long-term, we can get some measure of confidence in our numbers.

Looking at the ESR trend lines in Ebringer's "Etiopathogenesis..." paper there were 37 lines and 34 of these down, one flat and two "wrong-way" sloping. It is odd there were no interim tests, but the instructions to the patients were "eliminate dietary starches to an extent You are able and still feel comfortable with diet, overall."

One of the wrong-way subjects had a son, who was also a patient at the clinic, and said " has a potato at every dinner--says it is not really a meal without it."

Naturally, we are not going to ruin our own experiments, but this demonstrates the difficulty with testing diet, in general.

My results were very supportive of diet and as a vegetarian I had an average ESR running about 44. Once I changed my diet, I got down to 23 and when eating starches it climbed to 29 where pains began once again in this range. During that time, diet was strongly linked to ESR (I could get this test on-demand in Philippines where I was staying several months and they had just opened up a pizza place in my city of San Fernando La Union).

After many cycles on my ABX protocol now, my ESR remains between 1 and 5 and is totally independent of diet.

My explanation for this is that I cleared out my SIBO, which was a primary factor in disease severity. Diet alone cannot achieve this, IMHO.

Good Luck with Your experiment and I hope that You do not hurt Yourself too much!

Important AS Resources

Professor Ebringer: On Diet and AS;

RED ARROW --> Philippines

#519280 - 12/14/18 05:19 AM Re: No starch diet CRP open source experiment [Re: GeorgeHolland10]
GeorgeHolland10 Offline

Registered: 12/04/18
Posts: 3

Those are encouraging results!! It's the problem that diet is hard to test that keeps this potentially life changing remedy out of mainstream consensus. I know the diet works, I can feel it!
Ebringers results are very clear but unfortunately don't meet the clinical standards required. I emailed Alan about doing a test like this and he already had. The results showed that reducing starch consumption did reduce CRP significantly. It was a small pool in his experiment.

This forum has a lot of viewers. I will post results of my monitoring of CRP and also general level of starch consumption here. If it shows a positive correlation I'd encourage more of the community to try it.

If I'd know about this diet 18 years ago I might not have 5 fused vertebrae and years of pain!

#519404 - 01/31/19 11:03 AM Re: No starch diet CRP open source experiment [Re: GeorgeHolland10]
jackson Offline

Registered: 04/13/17
Posts: 22
Just curious since we are talking blood work and I didn't want to start a new thread, but have any of you ever had elevated Alk Phos (alkaline phosphatase). I just noticed this in my chart and am awaiting a response in my patient portal.

My latest CRP was 1.1 and ESR was 12.

#519618 - 05/05/19 11:31 AM Re: No starch diet CRP open source experiment [Re: GeorgeHolland10]
pspondylitis Offline

Registered: 03/18/12
Posts: 123
It would be very interesting to see the result. Unfortunately, I am not sure how good CRP is at judging disease activity. I have psoriatic spondylitis, which is same family as AS. I have suffered for about twenty years now. Only ONCE was my CRP raised ( 25) , all other times, even when in severe pain, CRP was normal. I think this is fairly common in AS as the inflammation can be "hidden" .
Age 52. Psoriatic spondylitis. HLA B27 negative. MRI negative.

#519674 - 06/01/19 07:32 AM Re: No starch diet CRP open source experiment [Re: GeorgeHolland10]
Kellybells Offline

Registered: 01/21/17
Posts: 184
Loc: Canada
I can appreciate your impulse, but those of us who have found success with diet have nothing to 'prove'. And I really can't imagine a universe where I would eat heavy starch and knowingly put myself in pain just to report some results that confirm what all of us already know.

The medical and scientific communities have largely failed to explore diet as a factor, and individual docs, beholden to pharmaceutical companies, aren't willing to believe that the solution could be so simple and have so few side effects.

Mind you, if you're still really keen on this, catch me next Christmas! Since starting this diet a few years ago, I have developed a perfect record of heavy, super indulgent starch eating through the month of December.
Suspected USpA. HLA B27, xray, u/sound, blood tests all -ve. Ancient history of plantar fasciitis, SI joint pain, knee arthritis. Recent history of tendinitis, neck pain, debilitating finger pain and stiffness (especially mornings). No diagnosis, no meds.

2010 - stopped eating dairy
2012 - stopped eating wheat
2014 - stopped eating all grains
Jan 2017 - discovered NSD - 98% improvement in symptoms, continually amazed by my results, wish I'd found kickAS sooner

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Dotyisle, Kiwi, Moderator 
Who's Online
0 registered (), 80 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Recent Posts
Weak legs
by fonzy
10/13/20 01:14 PM
Fever from AS flares
by sBrian
10/04/20 10:36 AM
by DragonSlayer
09/30/20 10:29 AM
juvenile idiopathic arthritis Enthesitis-related
by Missalicia
07/31/20 12:21 AM
How many of us had / have covid?
by DonCA
07/23/20 03:19 AM
Where did all the AS kickers go? :)
by Didier
05/17/19 07:06 AM
(Views)Popular Topics
"FITNESS" TEAM! - All Physical Activity & Sports 54,938,884
hmmm 2,598,832
Has anyone had Pedicle subtraction Osteotomy ? 2,210,306
What to do about healthcare? Can it be fixed? 1,500,220
User names revisited 1,163,789
A.S and beds, What do you find best? 1,142,092
Medicinal Marijuana 1,085,674
OMG!!!! 1,027,369
No/Low Starch Diet Success Stories 829,395
PARTY TIME! 512,914