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#518518 - 03/27/18 03:31 PM Other theories on starch intolerance?
j87x Offline
New_Member

Registered: 06/06/17
Posts: 18
Is it possible that starch intolerance could be a separate issue from klebsiella? That people are allergic to a compound in starch, and starch feeding the klebsiella is just a coincidence?

Everyone has their own individual intolerance to non-starch foods - nightshades, casein, lectins, salicylates, nuts/seeds. None of these things feed klebsiella, but cause joint pain depending on the individual. Could starch, or foods that contain starch be a direct culprit rather than klebsiella? Any theories on this have been discussed before?

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#518691 - 05/10/18 10:45 AM Re: Other theories on starch intolerance? [Re: j87x]
Robin_H Offline
Third_Degree_AS_Kicker

Registered: 09/13/15
Posts: 253
Loc: Hubei, China
yep
_________________________
HLA-B27 neg; Mis-diagnosed with fibromyalgia in mid-20s.
Vague AS symptoms in 20s and early 30s (no diagnosis).
During age 47 (2015) from NSAID use developed complete axial inflammation (started from from skull and progressed down to sacrum). Included psoriasis. Trigger in scull was reverse blockage in a SCUBA mishap in 2013. Straw that broke the camels back was over use of NSAIDs. NSD works well but not perfect. Strong involvement between symptoms and gut integrity.

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#518749 - 05/30/18 04:23 AM Re: Other theories on starch intolerance? [Re: j87x]
Robin_H Offline
Third_Degree_AS_Kicker

Registered: 09/13/15
Posts: 253
Loc: Hubei, China
I have the same question and recently dug up the following.

Systemic Factors in Starch Intolerance
  • Ability to digest starch depends on the number of copies of the AMY1 gene you have (amylase producing). The more the better. However one experiment showed that people with a large number of AMY1 genes had lower sugar spikes when eating sugar.
  • If you are sensitive to fructose then there are many genetic disorders that cause that (some are lethal.) But two causes maybe:
    1. the loss of your intestines to produce sucrace to breakdown sucrose (a disaccharide of glucose and fructose.)
    2. an infection or disease of the liver where fructose is converted to glucose and glycogen.
  • Mitochondrial damage from bad fats: soy, corn and other veg oils.
  • Gut bacteria – “Proteobacteria and Enterobacteriaceae were associated with poor glucose control.“ The bacteria in your gut is more important to blood sugar levels instead of glycemic index of the food. A hypothesis is that a healthy and diverse microbiota increases butyrate levels which help stop the endotoxins from gut bacteria from entering the blood stream and causing insulin resistance. If the hypothesis is correct then eliminating starchy foods will continually lower insulin tolerance because starchy foods help promote biota that produce butyrate.
    Quote:
    "would even argue that slowly increasing starch and prebiotic consumption could be therapeutic if your gut microbiome is out of balance."
  • Chronic GI inflammation caused by pathogens such as blastocist hominis and many others is known to cause starch intolerance.
  • Too much coffee destroying the brush border of small-bowel enterocytes.
  • Celiac

External Factors effecting Starch Digestion
  • swallowing and not cheweing food (saliva has amylase that breaks down starch.)
  • Cooking habits: baking and frying frees more starch than boiling – fried or baked potatoes versus boiling. (NOTE: frying starch in fat will produce lipopolysaccharides which are also found on gram-negative bacteria such as Klebsellia which trigger immune response.)
  • Eating starch alone instead of with fats and proteins will increase the rate sugar enters your blood.
  • Inability to relax increases cortisol levels that interfere with ability to store the sugar from starch in the liver and muscles. (try yoga and meditation – seriously!!)
  • Calcium an chromium deficiencies. They are greatly used to process sugar.
  • Lack of exercise leading to insulin resistance. Move around for a few minutes every hour to avoid long periods of sitting.

The above factors either are related or add to the cause of starch intolerance in AS. Possibly increase activity of some gut bacteria creates exotoxins, and signalling molecules that pass from the gut and into the bloodstream traveling to our own cells which respond with inflammation and also to infections within our body which become more active and then annoy us.

Doctors have to stop looking for just one cause and work on them all; and much of this is our own responsibility.

The above list is a summary derived from:
  1. https://lauraschoenfeldrd.com/starch-intolerance-carbs/
  2. https://proteinpower.com/drmike/2016/02/03/will-the-new-dietary-guidelines-fatten-us-even-more/
  3. http://sciencedrivennutrition.com/do-carbohydrates-control-body-fat

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#518824 - 07/09/18 10:18 PM Re: Other theories on starch intolerance? [Re: j87x]
Kellybells Online   content
Journeyman_AS_Kicker

Registered: 01/21/17
Posts: 119
Loc: Toronto, ON
Interesting question j87x. I tend to believe the cause is bacterial, and that there is no separate starch intolerance. I have been following a protocol that includes taking herbal antibiotics and over the last six months especially my ability to tolerate starch has really improved. Foods that were off limits this time last year are now fine, such as apples and figs. That seems to support the bacterial theory.

What I do question is whether klebsiella is the only culprit. Reactive arthritis, which produces the same symptoms as AS (SI joint pain, uveitis, enthesitis, etc) has been linked to at least 4 different bacterial infections of the bladder, genitals or GI tract, none of which are klebsiella.

Which brings me to....something I find absolutely mind boggling is that while the bacterial underpinning of reactive arthritis is widely accepted, AS, which produces the SAME SYMPTOMS, is considered some kind of medical mystery with an unknown genesis. Makes me wonder if these are even two different diseases at all... Seems obvious to me that not all infections get noticed or get asked about during assessment so how can anyone be sure (e.g. rheumatologist asked for extensive history, didn't once ask about history of bladder infections or food poisoning at time of onset). Some reactive arthritis cases are short-lived but others persist and lead to ankylosis. Given this overlap, how is it that the medical and scientific communities don't explore this link or focus bacteria in their AS research?

_________________________
Suspected SpA. HLA B27, xray, u/sound, blood tests all -ve. Ancient history of plantar fasciitis, SI joint pain, knee arthritis. Recent history of tendinitis, neck pain, debilitating finger pain and stiffness (especially mornings). No diagnosis, no meds.

2010 - stopped eating dairy
2012 - stopped eating wheat
2014 - stopped eating all grains
Jan 2017 - discovered NSD - 98% improvement in symptoms, continually amazed by my results, wish I'd found kickAS sooner

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