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#511345 - 06/13/15 03:09 PM Gut bacteria and AS
drizzit Offline
Silver_AS_Kicker

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 1483
Loc: Montana
Dr Rosenbaum from Oregon Health Sciences is a leading researcher on AS and a member of the Spondylitis association of America Medical and Science advisory board just wrote an article in the latest version of Spondylitis plus for the SAA.

He has basically pointed at gut bacteria as the root cause of AS and has applied to the FDA for a clinical trial next year for fecal transplant and AS in portland. He also talks a lot about taking propionic acid as a possible treatment for AS. Diet is mentioned but with the idea that we need more research there.

Great article if you can read it on the SAA site ( I think you have to be a member) The SAA is really pushing some great research into AS right now and has some great research partners that are really changing treatment ideas.

http://www.spondylitis.org/members/current.aspx?login=yes&


a couple of outakes from the article.

"Bacteria produce a number of chemical products that affect the health of our intestines. One of these chemicals, for example, is propionic acid. A change in the microbiome would result in changes in the chemical balance within the gut. Possibly this chemical balance could be restored without actually changing the bacteria. One strategy might be to simply drink propionic acid. A number of laboratories have recently reported exciting data in laboratory animals suggesting that propionic acid or other so called short chain fatty acids could be used to improve the health of the bowel. And while we do not know this for sure, I think that it is very likely that a healthier bowel would be an effective treatment for ankylosing spondylitis."

"I have been studying ankylosing spondylitis for 37 years. Until recently, no one could have convinced me that feces might just be the key to understanding this disease.

I think there is an old retired doc from England that would have told Dr Rosenbaum long ago that feces were the key to understanding AS>




Edited by drizzit (06/13/15 03:09 PM)
_________________________
No families take so little medicine as those of doctors, except those of apothecaries.

Oliver Wendell Holmes

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#511351 - 06/13/15 10:02 PM Re: Gut bacteria and AS [Re: drizzit]
Dotyisle Offline


Registered: 03/07/02
Posts: 9381
Loc: Rosario, Argentina
Thanks Steve for posting this... wish I was member of SAA to read full article.

Tim
_________________________
AS may win some battles, but I will win the war.

KONK - Keep ON Kicking

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#511353 - 06/13/15 10:06 PM Re: Gut bacteria and AS [Re: drizzit]
drizzit Offline
Silver_AS_Kicker

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 1483
Loc: Montana
Tim

Propionic acid is rich in saurerkraut. I know you always said that really helped you
_________________________
No families take so little medicine as those of doctors, except those of apothecaries.

Oliver Wendell Holmes

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#511354 - 06/14/15 03:28 AM Re: Gut bacteria and AS [Re: drizzit]
MollyC1i Offline
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 9709
Loc: Brittany, France (since Nov 08...
Drizzit - great. How exciting, that "retired rheumi from England" sure is exonerated <VBG> - all those no-sayers can go eat large slices of `humble` pie...HaHa. Am cock-a-hoop.

All this gut breakthrough seems to have been kick started by the human microbiome research project, then the links are made to the seminal work in AS by our retired English rheumi. YEA !

Will have to renew my American AS association membership - I let it slip as is a tad expensive. But yes, agree, they sure are making huge strides forward in treatment of AS. Thanks for putting that up - will print off and send to a couple of French rheumatologists who refer to diet as `pseudo` science ! Another slice of `humble`...HeHe yes
_________________________
MollyC1i - Riding OutAS

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#511355 - 06/14/15 03:36 AM Re: Gut bacteria and AS [Re: drizzit]
MollyC1i Offline
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 9709
Loc: Brittany, France (since Nov 08...
Yes, the article is only available through SAA membership. So I put in a search for treating AS with Propionic acid - needs more digging, but here`s a bit of a starter...

Frazers Animal Feeds » Grain Treatment
www.frazersanimalfeeds.com/grain-treatment/ - Similar to Frazers Animal Feeds » Grain Treatment
Propionic Acid treated grain has been successfully fed to cattle, sheep, goats, pigs, poultry and ... Propionic Acid is available from Frazers Animal Feeds in:.
Propionic Acidemia - Medscape Reference
emedicine.medscape.com/article/1161910-overview - Similar to Propionic Acidemia - Medscape Reference
4 Nov 2013 ... Propionic acidemia is a metabolic disorder in which a defective form of the ... A ( CoA) carboxylase results in the accumulation of propionic acid.
Possible ameliorative effects of antioxidants on propionic ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › NCBI › Literature › PubMed Central (PMC)
- Similar to Possible ameliorative effects of antioxidants on propionic ...
4 Nov 2013 ... Propionic acid treated group which were given PA at a dose of 250 mg/kg body weight/day for 3 days orally, 3. Clindamycin treated group ...
[PDF]
Propionic acid metabolism during biowaste treatment...
www.iba.kit.edu/download/PropionateMetabolism.pdf
Propionic acid metabolism during biowaste treatment: Comparison of different digester regimes. Propionate accumulates and rapidly decreases after obtaining ...
_________________________
MollyC1i - Riding OutAS

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#511366 - 06/14/15 11:11 AM Re: Gut bacteria and AS [Re: drizzit]
Grumpyally Offline
Black_Belt_AS_Kicker

Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 419
Loc: UK
Hi,

Thanks for posting thats interesting. I am about to start eating sauerkraut again and am getting ready to make my own!

It would be interesting if the trials are approved but also interesting how they sample people in the trials eg those on medication, those controlling with diet and so on. One of the things I noticed when looking into FMT was that really the gut should be healed first and then 'repopulated'

I know my friends dogs when out like to eat and roll in other animals poo!

x
_________________________
NSD almost all the way
No dairy hard cheeses occasionally and homemade ghee
Still trying to work out what makes me tick and what makes me drop

'Chew your drinks and drink your foods'
'Let your knife & fork do the work of your teeth and let your teeth do the work of your stomach'
Mahatma Gandhi

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#511368 - 06/14/15 11:23 AM Re: Gut bacteria and AS [Re: drizzit]
JVentura Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/14
Posts: 48
Any other sources of propionic acid besides sauerkraut?

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#511370 - 06/14/15 12:40 PM Re: Gut bacteria and AS [Re: drizzit]
drizzit Offline
Silver_AS_Kicker

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 1483
Loc: Montana
Molli This line of research was also triggered by the IL23 and ERAP1 genetic discoveries to AS. These point to the gut and an australian researcher named Dr Brown deserves huge kudos for those discoveries and this line of reasoning as well.

Another bit from the article

"We will also gain more knowledge about how diet affects the microbiome and we will develop ways to restore the health of the bowel, sometimes by replacing or eliminating specific bacteria and sometimes by replacing or eliminating the products that bacteria make or induce within the intestine. In the meantime, FMT, the transplantation of bacteria from feces, is being actively studied to treat inflammatory bowel disease. My colleagues and I hope that by 2016, we will be allowed by the FDA and ethics committees to try the same strategy in a limited number of patients with ankylosing spondylitis."


I will ask the SAA if I can post the article in its entirity here. I respect their $$ spent and their membership though.
_________________________
No families take so little medicine as those of doctors, except those of apothecaries.

Oliver Wendell Holmes

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#511371 - 06/14/15 12:41 PM Re: Gut bacteria and AS [Re: JVentura]
drizzit Offline
Silver_AS_Kicker

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 1483
Loc: Montana
Originally Posted By JVentura
Any other sources of propionic acid besides sauerkraut?


Kefir also has propionic acid in it. Tried to stay away from the sugary/creamy ones although they taste better. I like the kefir made from coconut milk
_________________________
No families take so little medicine as those of doctors, except those of apothecaries.

Oliver Wendell Holmes

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#511378 - 06/14/15 03:46 PM Re: Gut bacteria and AS [Re: drizzit]
MollyC1i Offline
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 9709
Loc: Brittany, France (since Nov 08...
Hi Drizzit - yes know of Dr Brown, he has an excellent reputation in the AS field, very valuable man of science and medicine. Wish we had more of his like. Roll on the day when this research work is openly acknowledged by medicine at large. And hopefully in the lifetime of these great doctors. Meantime, await further developments with this arm of research.

I did wonder of this latest might be linked to IL23 and ERAP1.

Hope the SAA will permit reproduction of the paper...

Thanks Drizzit
_________________________
MollyC1i - Riding OutAS

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