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#511443 - 06/21/15 06:19 PM How many people have trouble with Dairy?
Mark55 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 45
Hi guys, I'm gearing up to having a go at a strict no starch diet.

Part of me wants to go dairy free also to begin with, but I'm worried about not being able to eat enough calories, I'm naturally skinny and lose weight fast if I don't eat a relatively rich diet.

I was curious if anyone could tell me how prevalent they think problems with dairy are for people that are starch free? Do most people have trouble with dairy as well as starch or is it relatively rare? I know it's hard to judge/measure but if anyone could try and shed some light I'd appreciate it. Thanks for your time smile

Mark

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#511444 - 06/21/15 07:20 PM Re: How many people have trouble with Dairy? [Re: Mark55]
gbash Offline
Master_AS_Kicker

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 890
Loc: Oklahoma
I'm NSD, and I eat dairy. When I first started NSD, I also took out dairy, but I lost too much weight. I put it back in with no problems.
_________________________
AS symptoms started 1991. Official dx in 2006 with HLA-B27+, fused SIJ, bone spurs in back, extreme rib/hip pain, and other family with SpA. Started Enbrel in 2006 with good results, but stopped in 2010 due to nerve damage (MS) from it. Now getting good results with no-starch diet.

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#511445 - 06/21/15 07:33 PM Re: How many people have trouble with Dairy? [Re: Mark55]
dlee Offline
Second_Degree_AS_Kicker

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 229
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Dairy gives me headaches I eventually found and I cut it out also. I lost a lot of weight also on no starch, but once I bottomed out I lost no more. Once I added so called "clean" starches back in, I solved the weight problem. For my height and age I apparently need around 2000 calories per day for maintenance. I realised eating a no starch/no dairy diet I was probably at best eating 1700-1800 calories per day and some days less. I find I can add weight around 2500 calories.
I found it fairly hard to eat over 2000 calories per day with no starch. Probably I should have added fatty bone broths to my diet.
Recently (in the last 2 weeks) I have discovered coconut milk/cream yoghurt. It tastes better than dairy yoghurt in my opinion and is high in fat. Its expensive though so am currently trying making my own which seems a fairly easy process.
_________________________
_________________________________________________________
Diagnosed AS year 2000 age 26; First onset of major symptoms came with severe food poisoning leaving me in chronic pain hardly able to walk/sleep/sit - never been the same since; HLA-B27 positive; bouts of iritis; no biologics ever, controlling with NSAID's and diet but trying to get off NSAID's through various "biohacking" experimentations; Live in Auckland, New Zealand

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#511446 - 06/22/15 03:49 AM Re: How many people have trouble with Dairy? [Re: Mark55]
Staffy Offline
Apprentice_AS_Kicker

Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 79
Loc: Oxford, England
Dairy gives me worse flares than starch does

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#511447 - 06/22/15 04:01 AM Re: How many people have trouble with Dairy? [Re: Mark55]
Sue22 Offline
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 21296
Loc: Upstate NY
I'm allergic / sensitive to the casein protein (and possibly other proteins) in dairy (maybe only cow dairy. goat and sheep dairy may or may not be ok?) the way people with celiac are allergic / sensitive to gluten. But I have no problem with gluten. Discovered through IgA/IgG blood work.

I read up and found that just as many people are sensitive to casein as are sensitive to gluten...i think its only a matter of time where "dairy free" will be as "popular" as "gluten free".

I stopped all cow dairy and limit my goat and sheep cheese to maybe an ounce a day.

My gastritis improved immediately. Not sure how much its helping the spondy overall, perhaps it takes time for the gut to heal after years of developing leaky gut.

Too, my rheumy had me tested for sensitivity to S. cerevisiae (Bakers / Brewers yeast, found in bread and beer), same IgA/IgG testing and I am also sensitive to that; turns out a lot of people with Crohn's has this allergy / sensitivity.

I recommend having IgA/IgG blood work done (may have to go through a naturpath) to find out what you are allergic / sensitive to.

I don't think enough people think about food allergies / sensitivities and autoimmune / autoinflammatory diseases. Everyone accepts it for gluten, but there are lots of other proteins out there that can do the same thing; casein is a big one.

I'm technically sensitive / allergic to egg protein too, a little, but i eat those, in moderation as they are good protein source for someone with diabetes (which I have).

If you fear weight loss with cutting out dairy, may I suggest nut milks and coconut milk products. Coconut milk yogurt and coconut milk ice cream, and you will have no problem keeping weight on....in fact, you will find the other problem to be true. I've even figured out how to cook with a combo of nut milk and coconut milk in recipes that used to have milk; i can't do "bisque soups that are the same, but coconut milk thai fish or chicken soup is very good. coconut custard is excellent. My next adventure is making coconut flour pancakes....coconut flour, coconut oil, and coconut milk, along with a few other ingredients like eggs.
_________________________


sue

Spondyloarthropathy, HLAB27 negative
Humira (still methylprednisone for flares, just not as often. Aleve if needed, rarely.)
LDN/zanaflex/flector patches over SI/ice
vits C, D. probiotics. hyaluronic acid. CoQ, Mg, Ca, K.
chiro
walk, bike
no dairy (casein sensitivity), limited eggs, limited yeast (bread)

Top
#511456 - 06/22/15 05:16 PM Re: How many people have trouble with Dairy? [Re: Mark55]
dlee Offline
Second_Degree_AS_Kicker

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 229
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Just on the subject of food intolerances. I recently had an allergy test performed and it found I was allergic to all grains which was no surprise, but also apples, potatoes, tomatoes and shellfish. Basically all the things I had been recently eating bar grains (which I don't eat at all). I came to the conclusion leaky gut was just allowing some of those potentially antagonistic foods through to the bloodstream where they shouldn't be. 2 weeks on and not having eaten any of those foods listed as "allergic" I notice no difference. Yet I get headaches with dairy and it didn't show up as a problem.
_________________________
_________________________________________________________
Diagnosed AS year 2000 age 26; First onset of major symptoms came with severe food poisoning leaving me in chronic pain hardly able to walk/sleep/sit - never been the same since; HLA-B27 positive; bouts of iritis; no biologics ever, controlling with NSAID's and diet but trying to get off NSAID's through various "biohacking" experimentations; Live in Auckland, New Zealand

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#511459 - 06/22/15 10:30 PM Re: How many people have trouble with Dairy? [Re: Mark55]
Mark55 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 45
Thanks everybody for your responses smile

Maybe I will try dairy free to see if my inflammation goes down then reintroduce it later and see what happens. Perhaps I should have mentioned it but I'm a confirmed Celiac (from my dad's side, AS is from my mum's, go figure).

Thanks Sue - I didn't know there was coconut milk yoghurt, I'll try and find some in a store near me smile What do you use to replace the normal starch that's in Custard? Almond flour or coconut flour?

I have another question actually, I know this is hard to answer - how long does it take people to see benefits from the NSD on average? I know for some it's very fast, others many months, but is it common for it to help within the first month say? I'm HLA-B27 negative and my AS (or whatever it is that's close to AS) is very reactive to any stress at all on my SI joints. Years ago I could work out, go running, and play sport without trouble but now it's gotten to the point where walking up a lot of steps, doing some push ups or walking around for a few hours non stop will give me a flare up, which is very upsetting, I feel very trapped in my own body unable to really do much.

Thanks all for your time,
Mark

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#511462 - 06/23/15 07:21 AM Re: How many people have trouble with Dairy? [Re: Mark55]
The_Inflammator Offline
Journeyman_AS_Kicker

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 141
Loc: Northern Virginia
I'm not NSD but I've been drinking chocolate milk the last half of a year. My symptoms have gotten a lot worse. Plantar fasciitis and burning/stiff neck and shoulders. Yesterday was really bad. Pulsating burning pain deep in my shoulder muscles all day. I've decided to cut back to hard cheeses again. Starch seems to target low back/ SI joints while dairy targets feet, neck and shoulders.

Dairy also seems to turn directly into fat. I'm not a big guy but I gained 10 lbs of fat I haven't been able to lose despite being active. I've actually lost muscle strength so it does nothing to help build muscle mass. It also slowed my digestion down to 1 go every 3 days or more.


Edited by The_Inflammator (06/23/15 07:25 AM)

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#511463 - 06/23/15 09:11 AM Re: How many people have trouble with Dairy? [Re: The_Inflammator]
Grumpyally Offline
Black_Belt_AS_Kicker

Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 419
Loc: UK
That makes sense I would concur with that. I have only been having hard cheeses but in the last year or so I have been regularly eating homemade 24 hour fermented yoghurt and have had neck/shoulder and muscle issues.
I tried raw milk cream as a treat over the weekend wondering if that would be better as it is unadulterated so all the enzymes etc are there and have had dreadful burning in the neck and stiffness noticeably at night and in the morning.
_________________________
NSD almost all the way
No dairy hard cheeses occasionally and homemade ghee
Still trying to work out what makes me tick and what makes me drop

'Chew your drinks and drink your foods'
'Let your knife & fork do the work of your teeth and let your teeth do the work of your stomach'
Mahatma Gandhi

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#511465 - 06/23/15 09:30 AM Re: How many people have trouble with Dairy? [Re: Mark55]
The_Inflammator Offline
Journeyman_AS_Kicker

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 141
Loc: Northern Virginia
I was eating hard cheeses before and I think they cause some minor symptoms but nothing too extreme. It is in milk form that it seems to cause the worst issues. I was off of work yesterday and chugged a quarter of a gallon of chocolate milk I had left in the fridge. Later my shoulders had this deep throbbing burn that hurt more than anything I've dealt with in a long time. I think the ribs were involved too because it wrapped around to the sternum. It was actually pulsating. No more of that for me.


Edited by The_Inflammator (06/23/15 09:33 AM)

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#511471 - 06/24/15 09:52 AM Re: How many people have trouble with Dairy? [Re: Mark55]
Staffy Offline
Apprentice_AS_Kicker

Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 79
Loc: Oxford, England
Sorry if this is a tangent but do those who have trouble with dairy also have trouble with whey protein powders?

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#511481 - 06/25/15 03:29 AM Re: How many people have trouble with Dairy? [Re: Mark55]
Sue22 Offline
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 21296
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By Mark55


Thanks Sue - I didn't know there was coconut milk yoghurt, I'll try and find some in a store near me smile What do you use to replace the normal starch that's in Custard? Almond flour or coconut flour?


Thanks all for your time,
Mark


Its the egg that "solidifies" the custard: essentially "milk", eggs, sweetener (sugar, maple syrup, etc), flavorings (vanilla, almond extract, etc).

That's it.

Eggs, milk, sugar.
_________________________


sue

Spondyloarthropathy, HLAB27 negative
Humira (still methylprednisone for flares, just not as often. Aleve if needed, rarely.)
LDN/zanaflex/flector patches over SI/ice
vits C, D. probiotics. hyaluronic acid. CoQ, Mg, Ca, K.
chiro
walk, bike
no dairy (casein sensitivity), limited eggs, limited yeast (bread)

Top
#511482 - 06/25/15 03:30 AM Re: How many people have trouble with Dairy? [Re: Staffy]
Sue22 Offline
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 21296
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By Staffy
Sorry if this is a tangent but do those who have trouble with dairy also have trouble with whey protein powders?


i assumed I might so i just stirred clear from them. but I think it depends: if its just a casein sensitivity, then it might be ok. i wasn't willing to try.
_________________________


sue

Spondyloarthropathy, HLAB27 negative
Humira (still methylprednisone for flares, just not as often. Aleve if needed, rarely.)
LDN/zanaflex/flector patches over SI/ice
vits C, D. probiotics. hyaluronic acid. CoQ, Mg, Ca, K.
chiro
walk, bike
no dairy (casein sensitivity), limited eggs, limited yeast (bread)

Top
#511567 - 06/30/15 06:30 PM Re: How many people have trouble with Dairy? [Re: Mark55]
dlee Offline
Second_Degree_AS_Kicker

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 229
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
I do not have a problem with whey protein powders. But I select one with as few additives as possible and as close to natural as possible. Borderline I would suggest. You would have to try it and see how you respond.
_________________________
_________________________________________________________
Diagnosed AS year 2000 age 26; First onset of major symptoms came with severe food poisoning leaving me in chronic pain hardly able to walk/sleep/sit - never been the same since; HLA-B27 positive; bouts of iritis; no biologics ever, controlling with NSAID's and diet but trying to get off NSAID's through various "biohacking" experimentations; Live in Auckland, New Zealand

Top
#511604 - 07/02/15 08:34 AM Re: How many people have trouble with Dairy? [Re: Mark55]
The_Inflammator Offline
Journeyman_AS_Kicker

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 141
Loc: Northern Virginia
An update on the milk/ice cream. After cutting it out this past week my plantar fasciitis has gone down about 98%. I can jog much easier now without stiff sore feet. Digestion has improved as well. I have had constant foot issues the past 3/4 months, about when I started drinking milk daily. My neck/shoulder is still a little inflamed but better than it was. It is probably still injured. That area became very stiff and prone to injury while I was drinking milk/ eating ice cream. I'm still eating cheese though, though not daily. I'm not on NSD either.

It has only been a week though so hopefully it stays like this.

Top
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