banners
Kickas Main Page | Rights and Responsibilities | Donate to Kickas
Kickas Links
·HOME
·Forums Main Index
·Register!
MEDICAL CENTRE
·Medicine Contract
·AS Patient Guidebook
·Pain Map
·Disease Modification
·Ask your doctor
·AS and RA Papers
·AS Acronyms
DIET CENTRE
·London AS Diet
·Molecular Mimicry
·AS Dietary Primer
·AS Food Guide
SUPPORT CENTRE
·In Memorium
·KickAS Stories
·KickAS Banners
·Donations
Forum Stats
12,685 Registered Members
28 Forums
43,347 Topics
515,712 Posts

Most users ever online: 1,568 @ 06/29/16 03:25 PM
Newest Members
Kells, HappySwede, ClearBlueSky, asumom, JJBT
12685 Registered Users
KickAs Team
Administrator/owner:
John (Dragonslayer)
Administrator:
Melinda (mig)
WebAdmin:
Timo (Timo)
Administrator:
Brad (wolverinefan)

Moderators:
- Tim (Dotyisle)
- Chelsea (Kiwi)
- Megan (Megan)
- Wendy (WendyR)
- John (Cheerful)
- Chris (fyrfytr187)

QR Code
If you want to use this QR code (Quick Response code) just save the image and paste it where you want. You can even print it and use it that way. Coffee cups, T-Shirts etc would all be good for the QR code.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#511372 - 06/14/15 12:56 PM Gut healing protocol supplements any thoughts
Grumpyally Offline
Black_Belt_AS_Kicker

Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 419
Loc: UK
Hi this is looong I'm sorry I have highlighted the main gist in red.

Up until 18 months ago diet was working fine. I don't know what changed but I have been grumbling along since then. The final straw was iritis again after a 16 month gap at the beginning of May. I am off the drops but feel it still may flare up again.

I have picked myself up yet again and dusted myself off and am now on a crusade to heal my gut once and for all.

Possible faults are my sweet tooth: in the run up to iritis I was definitely overdoing the chocolate (sugar). As a general rule I have been yoyoing between being really good and then overdoing the starch free baked goods etc. I also think I have been eating too much at once and too many things, too many nuts and seeds and so on. Also not being so active: chicken and egg syndrome I ache therefore doing things that require sitting lets me forget about it. It is my neck that is causing me the most problems plus more 'arthritic' aches and pains and muscle weakness/pulls, not my Si or lower back.

I know food is definitely the link as if I fast for 24 hours the neck pains improve I find it difficult to fast for any longer currently as I have a family to cook and look after and I love my food frown. I am currently trying my hardest to do a strict diet to see if I react to something I wasn't aware off.
My diet for the last two weeks has consisted of mostly chicken bone broth/stock soups of onions, garlic, green herbs, broccoli and celery also some spinach and kale with trials of avocado. I have also had some salad leaves and cucumber, fish, not much red meats. The only fruit blueberries, strawberries and raspberries but very limited.
No dairy, nightshades and nuts on top of grains starches etc.
I have also introduced wild fermented sauerkraut today.

Supplements I take Biokult 14 strains mainly biffidobacterium and lactobacillus. Green Pasture Blue ice Royal FCLO and Vitamin D3 haphazardly when I remember plus Borage/Starflower oil.

So my gut hasn't healed I am reading Terry Wahls Protocol book and The Gut Health Protocol trying to come up with a plan.

I have listened to many webinars on gut healing and autoimmune and the general opinion is that diet alone isn't enough and that a multi pronged approach is needed.

This involves killing any bad bacteria or candida using a biofilm distruptor to unmask the critters and kill supplements. Then a healing and maintenance phase to heal and repair the gut.

The most important being fermented foods such as sauerkraut, kimchi and kefir plus bone broths. In addition to this a bombardment of supplements.

I am very wary of supplements preferring eat my way to it but it does kind of make sense...

The table of supplements of which there are lots and at great expense is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14oT_qVwXtABV2V3wsHHBnDAY017_ycdS3RkOQJkwIrg/edit


The supplements I would be looking at are:

Biofilm disruptor such as Interphase plus
Kill such as Allibiotic CF candida and pathogenic bacteria
Possibly Saccharomyces bouladrdii for candida
Lactoferrin for biofilm and bad bugs which sounds promising as it is said to bind iron making it unavailable to pathenogenic bacteria but more available to you. I have had my iron tested recently it was 'satisfactory' whatever that means. I need to see my GP for the exact result. Anemia is something my mum was prone to.

Soil based organisms such as Prescript assist.
Digestive enzymes do I need them? How would I know I don't have undigested food in my stools. Though I have been intermittent in consistency.
Zinc Carnosine
Gut healing L'Glutamine, Colostrum

Oh and I have read that Uva ursi and berberine are good for knocking out Klebsiella

The webinars have also said that they have found most cases of leaky gut start with some sort of parasite or bacteriological infection. I could say all my problems kicked off with a severe tummy bug then accelerated with antibiotics years later and a couple more tummy bugs.

I can tick lots of boxes for Candida but not the main thrush, mouth infection ones I asked my GP about testing and she said they don't tend to as it gets passed back and forth between partners.

Any thoughts or experiences with any of these ideas and supplements and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Waste of money???

I am aware of the Roadback foundation and antibiotic protocol it is on my back burner but after that you would need a healing repopulating regime.

Thanks x


Edited by Grumpyally (06/14/15 01:49 PM)
_________________________
NSD almost all the way
No dairy hard cheeses occasionally and homemade ghee
Still trying to work out what makes me tick and what makes me drop

'Chew your drinks and drink your foods'
'Let your knife & fork do the work of your teeth and let your teeth do the work of your stomach'
Mahatma Gandhi

Top
#511376 - 06/14/15 02:12 PM Re: Gut healing protocol supplements any thoughts [Re: Grumpyally]
miniowl Offline
Journeyman_AS_Kicker

Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 107
I've been doing so much of the same research and it looks like you are on such a good track already but I do have one thought.

I was sure I had candida but I got a csda test and I have no yeast. I do have too much of a bacteria called citrobacter. Finding out exactly what's overgrowing might be helpful because then you can find out what it eats. In addition to starch and sugar I definitely have to avoid FOS (in onions) as well because the citro loves FOS. I got my test through Doctor's Data. I think you need a physician to order it. A functional med doctor would be great but they're $$$. I got mine via a nutritionist (who is also technically a doctor bc she used to be a chiropractor.) They also culture your results in the lab so they can find out what is effective against your pathogens. I'm only a week and half into the weeding out the pathogen phase so I can't say yet how helpful it's been in my case. However, I used to take oregano oil, thinking that it had to help. Maybe it did a little but it also kills lots of good bugs and it showed only a limited effectiveness at killing the citrobacter in the cultures so now I know that's probably not the best option for me. Good luck! Please keep us posted with what works and doesn't and I'll be sure to let you know if I think of anything else.

Also, I get the most pains in my neck as well. This video helped me a bit. I already did all kinds of stretches for my neck but this mentions some other areas that can get tight and then affect the neck. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8771TzWEXw


Edited by miniowl (06/14/15 10:40 PM)

Top
#511396 - 06/15/15 10:02 AM Re: Gut healing protocol supplements any thoughts [Re: Grumpyally]
Staffy Offline
Apprentice_AS_Kicker

Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 79
Loc: Oxford, England
I am a fool for supplements generally but honestly most of them are snake oil and some of them have the potential to be dangerous.

Soil based organisms for example, this gent suggests more research required before they can be trusted: http://fixyourgut.com/hso-probiotics-part-3-prescript-assist/

Now, prescript assist etc are almost certainly fine (if very expensive) but the safest thing you can do is probably stick to the sauerkraut.

It is possible that a good healthy whole food diet, moderate exercise and stretching, sleep maximisation and stress reduction are the best and safest options we have.

Certainly, I haven't found a supplement yet that has done me significant good.

Supplement wisely and sparingly.

Of course I am a massive hypocrite, the dream of cure is too huge a prize. I'm just as likely as anyone else to order the latest supplement or probiotic at great expense when someone claims it put them into remission!

Top
#511406 - 06/16/15 01:18 AM Re: Gut healing protocol supplements any thoughts [Re: miniowl]
Grumpyally Offline
Black_Belt_AS_Kicker

Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 419
Loc: UK
Hi thanks, yes I was wondering about dropping onions for a while testing would be great but you are pretty much on your own here in the UK if you don't go the medical route. Finding a functional doctor over here.... and trusting an finding nyone who hasn't just lumped on the bandwagon and done just a nutrition course etc.
Thanks for the video link I have managed to watch half of it so haven't got to the neck yet but it is helpful so far.
_________________________
NSD almost all the way
No dairy hard cheeses occasionally and homemade ghee
Still trying to work out what makes me tick and what makes me drop

'Chew your drinks and drink your foods'
'Let your knife & fork do the work of your teeth and let your teeth do the work of your stomach'
Mahatma Gandhi

Top
#511408 - 06/16/15 01:29 AM Re: Gut healing protocol supplements any thoughts [Re: Staffy]
Grumpyally Offline
Black_Belt_AS_Kicker

Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 419
Loc: UK
Hi,
Thanks I would much rather stay away from supplements. Sauerkraut is making me flare or its die off so I am taking it one day and having to wait before trying it again.

I found an article on soil based that talked about none of the prescript assist being ones found in the body (that they know of as it is difficult to 'capture' all). I have stopped wearing gloves when gardening lol.

Also I saw this, somebody cultured the handprint of a child after playing outside

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/a...on-s-palms.html
_________________________
NSD almost all the way
No dairy hard cheeses occasionally and homemade ghee
Still trying to work out what makes me tick and what makes me drop

'Chew your drinks and drink your foods'
'Let your knife & fork do the work of your teeth and let your teeth do the work of your stomach'
Mahatma Gandhi

Top
#511425 - 06/18/15 12:00 AM Re: Gut healing protocol supplements any thoughts [Re: Grumpyally]
ValsMum Offline
Steel_AS_Kicker

Registered: 07/05/10
Posts: 1168
Hi GrumpyAlly,
I feel like I could have written your post. I cook for my family and I want to eat what they are eating half the time. I also eat too much sugar, I should just stop cold turkey, I gave up sugar for a year once, but that was before kids, now I turn to sweets for comfort, that's BAD, I know.
I tried the antibiotics(minocycline & clindamycin) and for me IT WAS THE WORST PAIN EVER, it made me flare like crazy and I kept taking them like an idiot hoping I would pass the "herx ", it was awful, I have never been in so much pain.
Have you seen the autoimmune paleo protocol? The foods on the nono list are more extensive than the list here at Kickas, nuts seeds, eggs , dairy sugar are off limits and for good reason I think.
I feel best eating raw fruits and veggies,and I cheat a little bit but I try not to overdo the cheating, just a little bit so I can stay sane and be nice to my kids & hubby. If I had to recommend a supplement it would be high dose vitamin c and juicing with a juicer a few times a day. All the folks that get beeter with diet are strict and eat a ton of raw fruits and veggies,for example......gerson.org, fatsick and nearlydead.com,clintscure (for RA) , automimmune paleo diet, dr siegnalet, dr furman , and dr mercola's RA diet/protocol.

Hope you feel better,take care!!
_________________________
Diet change has improved my RA. I feel best eating raw veggies and some fruits and avoiding grains, sugars, nightshades, beans and dairy. Sed rate dropped from 65 to 19, but it took over a year.
www.fatsickandnearlydead.com

Top
#511429 - 06/19/15 01:15 PM Re: Gut healing protocol supplements any thoughts [Re: ValsMum]
Grumpyally Offline
Black_Belt_AS_Kicker

Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 419
Loc: UK
Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

Yes I have pretty much been doing the AIP for at least the last 4 weeks until a couple of days ago when I succumbed to some walnuts (soaked for 24hrs and low heat roasted).

I can't say it has made much difference but I think the sauerkraut was a bad idea I think it is making me flare not sure if it is the cabbage or the fermented part. I am trying the broths and soups to reset my taste buds and previously the Gaps protocol worked wonders but now I cant bring myself to do it completely as eggs and nuts are big at the beginning, plus avocados which I suspect I might react to too at the moment (gutted about that one)

I agree I did best with fruits, salad, veggies and some fish/meat. No time to bake or think about overeating was best.
I was juicing every morning and eating fresh and raw for one of my meals sometimes two. Something changed and I am trying to find out what, too much of an unknown trigger food compounded by the addition of my sweet tooth perhaps.

I do feel as though soups are very much dead foods even though I am perfecting cooking everything as lightly as possible. My sense of smell has gone through the roof. Normally the smell of bread, crisps etc didn't bother me at all but now....
My neck is just yo-yo-ing between horrendous and slightly better frown but at least today is a better day so so far sauerkraut is suspect. When I am upright it isn't so bad just restricted movement but trying to lift my head when lying down or going to lay down, no can do I need to support it with my hand.

No chocolate since my iritis at the beginning of May now that's a record laugh

Fingers crossed I am getting there slowly.
_________________________
NSD almost all the way
No dairy hard cheeses occasionally and homemade ghee
Still trying to work out what makes me tick and what makes me drop

'Chew your drinks and drink your foods'
'Let your knife & fork do the work of your teeth and let your teeth do the work of your stomach'
Mahatma Gandhi

Top
#511430 - 06/19/15 03:35 PM Re: Gut healing protocol supplements any thoughts [Re: Grumpyally]
Lon Offline
Very_Addicted_to_AS_Kickin

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 8342
Loc: Gillette, Wyoming
I am sure rooting for you!
_________________________
1 Kings 20:1-22
ne triumphum canas ante victoriam.




Lon

Top
#511530 - 06/28/15 12:32 PM Re: Gut healing protocol supplements any thoughts [Re: Grumpyally]
miniowl Offline
Journeyman_AS_Kicker

Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 107
Grumpyally,

Curious if you started any of the biofilm disruptors and how you're doing.

As per my earlier post, I was taking a botanical for the bacteria but feeling zero die off so I started to think that maybe it wasn't doing anything.
Yesterday I took interfase plus, waited 30 minutes and then took the botanical and I felt horrible. If that's die off then I guess that's good, haha. Will keep experimenting. I'm planning to alternate interfase plus and ACV as biofilm disruptors for the next week and see how it goes. Might get into making natto as well. (http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/2009/09/cure-for-inflammatory-diseases.html)
Still avoiding starch, sugar, and FOS. Eating small amounts of fermented food throughout the day and taking probiotics at night. (not too close to when I take the botanical since it might just kill the probiotics as well) Started taking acacia in small doses and eating a few raw carrots hoping to get some prebiotics in my diet. (i think carrots have some prebiotic value, not even sure on this)
All of this is actually making me feel worse right now but hopefully come out the other side feeling better someday. Keep me posted if you've decided to start something similar. Would love to compare notes as we go. Hope you're feeling better than before.

Top
#511531 - 06/28/15 12:49 PM Re: Gut healing protocol supplements any thoughts [Re: Grumpyally]
miniowl Offline
Journeyman_AS_Kicker

Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 107
Also, just as an aside - there's a lot of information about gut health on the Chris Kresser podcast. He goes in depth about a lot of health topics so it can be a little overwhelming, but at this point I'm totally obsessed with learning everything I can so I love it.

http://chriskresser.com/podcasts/listings/?tag_ID=781

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  Dotyisle, Kiwi, Moderator 
Who's Online
0 registered (), 87 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Recent Posts
New issues
by Gman1970
08/20/17 11:17 PM
Confused - AS
by jay_bharat
08/18/17 03:45 AM
Mayo clinic
by jay_bharat
08/17/17 05:48 AM
Headaches from Humira
by baileyo
08/15/17 06:43 PM
Dr. Reveille
by Tnate
08/11/17 12:27 AM
Various questions, and about Candida
by kj243
08/10/17 02:10 PM
updating account
by Possi
08/10/17 12:41 PM
(Views)Popular Topics
"FITNESS" TEAM! - All Physical Activity & Sports 34,121,021
hmmm 1,698,916
Has anyone had Pedicle subtraction Osteotomy ? 1,456,060
What to do about healthcare? Can it be fixed? 942,973
User names revisited 818,123
Medicinal Marijuana 729,059
A.S and beds, What do you find best? 723,916
OMG!!!! 680,483
No/Low Starch Diet Success Stories 501,242
THE STARCH CONTENT OF FOODS - THE LIST 414,453